Gear progression and addition of items to the game

[Carolina 728]

What the hell is this essay 

[≈Flukejiver 1,187]

1 hour ago, sheli~ said:

bro underscore u needa get a job or something 

LOL

[Howl 949]

What items do you feel contributed the most to the value of other similar items crashing?

I don't think RS has the "substitution effect" that real economies do. No one is going to suddenly start using a dragonfire shield over an avernic defender just because one is way cheaper than the other. The current state of the game means that people will always try to buy the best gear possible, regardless of price. If they can't buy it, they buy the next best thing. I guess the closest thing would be certain supplies, i.e. cheap grapes/jugs of wine likely helps drive down the price of raw sharks to an extent or cheap runite bars helps drive down the price of adamantite bars (you get the point).

 

What aspect of the game do you think is affected the most?

I mean they're basically all impacted the same? As more gold and items are poured into the game, it becomes easier across the board. BiS gear and supplies are easier to buy, making PvM easier. Good PvP gear is cheaper. Skilling is cheaper. We're playing Ezscape Similator 2021 (it's time for a reset).

 

What items do you think will crash in the future unless steps are taken to prevent it?

All of them. Look at the items that have dropped the most in price over the last 3 months - https://secure.runescape.com/m=itemdb_oldschool/top100?list=3&scale=3 - many of them are high value items. That's because there's nothing to artificially keep their price up and no one has any reason to buy more than one of them (if I remember correctly, Jagex may even limit how many of a certain high value item you can own at once - at least I think they did in Rs2).

 

 The ones most likely to keep their value are items that are BiS. For example, we've (mostly) seen Bandos armour keep it's value. All of the items you mentioned as dropping a lot in price were once BiS, but then replaced by better items. As I explained above, there's no substitution effect for high value items in RS for the majority of the player base (a substitution effect does exist within PvP), so there is nothing to stop people from buying the best items if they can afford them.

 

What do you think could be done to "fix" the prices of some currently low valued items?

It's a problem that doesn't need fixing. The game has gotten easier and will continue to get easier as Jagex introduces new content that people want to use. If you care about the price of older items, then stop asking for new ones.

 

It's simple economics - if the demand is falling while the supply is rising, then the price will drop. Without a massive influx of new players, there is little demand for many of the "lower tier" items like Barrows. Items like prayer scrolls only need to be used once, so of course there will be limited demand for those. Then other items like glories are so over-saturated that there is no hope of these recovering in value. The new death mechanics also mean people never lose rares anymore (with the few exceptions in the wilderness).

 

If you really wanted to raise the prices on these items, the easy answer is to set a high alch value on them that would keep them artificially inflated in price. However, that would break so many aspects of the current game. Many people have stockpiles of certain items. There would be more inflation, the player base would riot, etc. Remember when climbing books were suddenly given a high alch value of 75k? Yeah.

 

Do you see the meta changing even further in the near future for certain content as a result of item crashes?

It already has. Buyable skills like Cooking and Fletching are even more stupid easy than they were 10 years ago. Any semi-serious PvMer with half a brain has BiS gear now. Mutli-PvP has evolved such that rune sets are dirt cheap, making F2P uncapped fights pointless in the extreme. Clans who take P2P fights seriously show up in far better gear than they would've 5 years ago. The cheapness of items like occults, Barrows gear, and even whips means that return sets will continue to evolve to include better and better gear.

[Dr Destiny 418]

if you got time to write this up, u got time to join

[Adam_ 1,075]

Just now, Howl said:

What items do you feel contributed the most to the value of other similar items crashing?

I don't think RS has the "substitution effect" that real economies do. No one is going to suddenly start using a dragonfire shield over an avernic defender just because one is way cheaper than the other. The current state of the game means that people will always try to buy the best gear possible, regardless of price. If they can't buy it, they buy the next best thing. I guess the closest thing would be certain supplies, i.e. cheap grapes/jugs of wine likely helps drive down the price of raw sharks to an extent or cheap runite bars helps drive down the price of adamantite bars (you get the point).

 

What aspect of the game do you think is affected the most?

I mean they're basically all impacted the same? As more gold and items are poured into the game, it becomes easier across the board. BiS gear and supplies are easier to buy, making PvM easier. Good PvP gear is cheaper. Skilling is cheaper. We're playing Ezscape Similator 2021 (it's time for a reset).

 

What items do you think will crash in the future unless steps are taken to prevent it?

All of them. Look at the items that have dropped the most in price over the last 3 months - https://secure.runescape.com/m=itemdb_oldschool/top100?list=3&scale=3 - many of them are high value items. That's because there's nothing to artificially keep their price up and no one has any reason to buy more than one of them (if I remember correctly, Jagex may even limit how many of a certain high value item you can own at once - at least I think they did in Rs2).

 

 The ones most likely to keep their value are items that are BiS. For example, we've (mostly) seen Bandos armour keep it's value. All of the items you mentioned as dropping a lot in price were once BiS, but then replaced by better items. As I explained above, there's no substitution effect for high value items in RS for the majority of the player base (a substitution effect does exist within PvP), so there is nothing to stop people from buying the best items if they can afford them.

 

What do you think could be done to "fix" the prices of some currently low valued items?

It's a problem that doesn't need fixing. The game has gotten easier and will continue to get easier as Jagex introduces new content that people want to use. If you care about the price of older items, then stop asking for new ones.

 

It's simple economics - if the demand is falling while the supply is rising, then the price will drop. Without a massive influx of new players, there is little demand for many of the "lower tier" items like Barrows. Items like prayer scrolls only need to be used once, so of course there will be limited demand for those. Then other items like glories are so over-saturated that there is no hope of these recovering in value. The new death mechanics also mean people never lose rares anymore (with the few exceptions in the wilderness).

 

If you really wanted to raise the prices on these items, the easy answer is to set a high alch value on them that would keep them artificially inflated in price. However, that would break so many aspects of the current game. Many people have stockpiles of certain items. There would be more inflation, the player base would riot, etc. Remember when climbing books were suddenly given a high alch value of 75k? Yeah.

 

Do you see the meta changing even further in the near future for certain content as a result of item crashes?

It already has. Buyable skills like Cooking and Fletching are even more stupid easy than they were 10 years ago. Any semi-serious PvMer with half a brain has BiS gear now. Mutli-PvP has evolved such that rune sets are dirt cheap, making F2P uncapped fights pointless in the extreme. Clans who take P2P fights seriously show up in far better gear than they would've 5 years ago. The cheapness of items like occults, Barrows gear, and even whips means that return sets will continue to evolve to include better and better gear.

You make a good point that people don't really opt to use something worse unless they just can't afford the BiS option. I would say however that blowpipe and trident among other items in a way do contribute to other prices crashing. They're rather cheap and you can do a fair amount of content rather efficiently with them, obviously it's not bis gear but those two items in particular I feel, especially for their cost, can basically allow endless farming of certain things where you'll essentially always profit and be bringing in more drops in the process, take that and apply it to all of the lower levels and other individuals without bis gear and the hordes of goldfarmers, and I feel there's a fair amount of content that wouldn't be farmed nearly as hard as it is now were trident/bp either non existent or more expensive and thus less available. I guess it's more the people using the items and what they're being used for that's crashing other items, as opposed to them being a cheaper alternative in a lot of cases but ya. 

 

Good point about them all being affected, though I do think skilling is affected a bit less in the aspect of the actual gameplay. PvM/PvP being made easier actually affects how we do it, whereas skilling materials being cheaper in a lot of scenarios I feel doesn't actually change the content of whatever skill or skilling method, besides making some more viable than they'd be if the materials were expensive. Perhaps it's just the difference being more noticeable or visible during actual gameplay for pvp/pvm though. I don't necessarily agree we need a server reset however, i'd like to see what they can do with potential item sinks or other solutions. 

 

There are buy limits not only for expensive items but as far as i'm aware pretty much every item where you can only buy x, although it does reset every 4 hours. I guess that even though the med and lower level communities keep a demand for some non bis items and the price of certain bis items can be quite substantial, as you said, most if not all items will continue to go down though BiS will certainly remain the safest.

 

While you mention a lack of new players crippling the demand for some items which have a substantial supply, I do feel that there are some things that can be done to address this. The first would be the equipment rebalance, mainly the blowpipe. Since the blowpipe is ridiculously good basically everywhere, a lot of other items have limited uses. If the rebalance were done right (a big if), then perhaps there'd be some demand for some other items, though I guess that would also perhaps technically make them bis and then they'd not be considered lower tier items, I could see it making things like dcb rise a bit. Content additions to the game that require more of niche weapons could also perhaps create such a demand for items which may not be considered to have a great use currently other than being worse versions of other items. I think as you said, prayer scrolls are likely doomed unless they were to create a worthwhile sink for them other than the consumption to unlock the prayers but that's kind of due to how they were designed to be a one time unlock. I agree that raising the alch value of a lot of these items to keep them artificially tied to a certain price higher than what they currently are, would likely cause more problems than it would solve as well as set a poor precedent.

 

The last question was more meant to just be asking how you think it may particularly change from here on out, aka what items you think may become cheaper and thus become the meta for certain methods or pvp or whatever due to being cost efficient, but not the best wording on my part so yeah. I do wonder what return sets may look like a year or two down the line assuming there's still a clan world to use them.

 

I guess my main question to you would be do you think an item sink in the form of a skill or something would work? I believe it's called invention on RS3 which is basically just sacrificing items for exp or better items or both or something along those lines, and it's seemingly kept some items, even items far more outdated than they are on OSRS (dks rings, godswords, etc) somewhat valuable instead of essentially free. Obviously not what they were worth pre eoc or when they were bis, but something at least. The more i've seen a lot of prices crash, the more i've felt perhaps it could work if implemented properly, though it could ultimately just be a bandaid fix to an issue that, as you said, may not be solved or doesn't necessarily need solving.

 

Also appreciate the response, obviously I know my topics and responses get quite long and overwhelming some times but you always have good contributions/replies.

[dnd5 1,017]

It's clear that power creep is a real thing and we are no longer playing OSRS as we knew it. That ended a long time ago. However, you raise some points that I disagree with. I don't think that it is a bad thing that gear is cheaper. The best in slot items are still very expensive. Only a few of the items you listed are used in higher tier PvM, and two of them are only needed once per account. Yes they are decent Pking items but there are generally better options also. I don't think it is bad that DFS is only 3m. It's really a niche item that is almost useless with even regular anti fire pots. These items still hold some value though because they are still useful. For instance AGS is still one of the better +1's for p2p that is cheap enough that if you get smited it's not a big deal. Ahrim's is the 2nd best mage robes in the game behind ancestral. 

 

Honestly, I think that power creep is an important aspect of the game. Sure, most of the people here like pvp, and power creep definitely has some negative aspects in PvP. Elder maul and toxic staff are very OP. But do you think that people would still play this game if the best gear you could achieve was barrows like it originally was in 07 and the only bosses were like KBD and KQ. Even with godwars dungeon and the gear associated with that people would get bored. Updating content is important but you also have to make content that people will use. Most people will do the content that is more challenging or makes them more money or provides them with an advantage at something that makes them money. Without these updates OSRS would be dead. People would get bored and stop playing. 

 

What items do you feel contributed the most to the value of other similar items crashing?

All best in slot gear will cause the item it supplants to crash. Items also not having use will cause them to crash. 

 

What aspect of the game do you think is affected the most?

Lower tier PvM such as godwars is super easy to do now due to high powered weapons. 

 

What items do you think will crash in the future unless steps are taken to prevent it?

 Nearly everything will crash except for like Tbow and maybe like ancestral etc. The prices will lower on these as more of them come into the game but I don't think you'll see it worth only a couple mil. 

 

What do you think could be done to "fix" the prices of some currently low valued items?

crash. I don't think it is a bad thing that some of these items are low valued. Should barrows really be that expensive?? The only way the price will be increased is if there is a buff or an item to combine with it that makes it the new best. Or if it becomes necessary to do some sort of PvM that gives you high earning potential or BIS gear. The other thing that could be done is make requirements to use these items tiered more. For instance giving Ancestral a 90 magic requirement would make ahrims best in slot until you reach that level. 

 

Do you see the meta changing even further in the near future for certain content as a result of item crashes?

Not really. Barrows makes money more due to runes than items. Godwars items are cheaper alternatives to some weapons(ACB, BGS, SOTD) or best in slot still (SGS, Armadyl, Bandos). 

[Pietru 1,242]

What items do you feel contributed the most to the value of other similar items crashing?

Rigour/Augury - but I believe that the main reason for items crashing is bots/vennies in general, they're everywhere at almost every boss now.

 

What aspect of the game do you think is affected the most?

Definitely PVM, all items are flying down like crazy (I lost 250m since I've been locked out of my account so far)

PVP is an honorable mention with SOTD/AGS crashing so hard in price

 

What items do you think will crash in the future unless steps are taken to prevent it?

Pretty much all items. Any PVM boss that drops anything decent is heavily farmed by bots and vennies 24/7 and raids is done by pretty much anyone who plays this game

 

What do you think could be done to "fix" the prices of some currently low valued items?

Buff easily farmable bosses with expensive items (GWD bosses) and potentially balance out certain items

 

Do you see the meta changing even further in the near future for certain content as a result of item crashes?

I mean the meta won't really change that much, raids will still be done, gear progression is mostly the same no matter how much time passes as well

Edited April 16, 2021 by Pietru

[Adam_ 1,075]

11 minutes ago, dnd5 said:

It's clear that power creep is a real thing and we are no longer playing OSRS as we knew it. That ended a long time ago. However, you raise some points that I disagree with. I don't think that it is a bad thing that gear is cheaper. The best in slot items are still very expensive. Only a few of the items you listed are used in higher tier PvM, and two of them are only needed once per account. Yes they are decent Pking items but there are generally better options also. I don't think it is bad that DFS is only 3m. It's really a niche item that is almost useless with even regular anti fire pots. These items still hold some value though because they are still useful. For instance AGS is still one of the better +1's for p2p that is cheap enough that if you get smited it's not a big deal. Ahrim's is the 2nd best mage robes in the game behind ancestral. 

 

Honestly, I think that power creep is an important aspect of the game. Sure, most of the people here like pvp, and power creep definitely has some negative aspects in PvP. Elder maul and toxic staff are very OP. But do you think that people would still play this game if the best gear you could achieve was barrows like it originally was in 07 and the only bosses were like KBD and KQ. Even with godwars dungeon and the gear associated with that people would get bored. Updating content is important but you also have to make content that people will use. Most people will do the content that is more challenging or makes them more money or provides them with an advantage at something that makes them money. Without these updates OSRS would be dead. People would get bored and stop playing. 

 

What items do you feel contributed the most to the value of other similar items crashing?

All best in slot gear will cause the item it supplants to crash. Items also not having use will cause them to crash. 

 

What aspect of the game do you think is affected the most?

Lower tier PvM such as godwars is super easy to do now due to high powered weapons. 

 

What items do you think will crash in the future unless steps are taken to prevent it?

 Nearly everything will crash except for like Tbow and maybe like ancestral etc. The prices will lower on these as more of them come into the game but I don't think you'll see it worth only a couple mil. 

 

What do you think could be done to "fix" the prices of some currently low valued items?

crash. I don't think it is a bad thing that some of these items are low valued. Should barrows really be that expensive?? The only way the price will be increased is if there is a buff or an item to combine with it that makes it the new best. Or if it becomes necessary to do some sort of PvM that gives you high earning potential or BIS gear. The other thing that could be done is make requirements to use these items tiered more. For instance giving Ancestral a 90 magic requirement would make ahrims best in slot until you reach that level. 

 

Do you see the meta changing even further in the near future for certain content as a result of item crashes?

Not really. Barrows makes money more due to runes than items. Godwars items are cheaper alternatives to some weapons(ACB, BGS, SOTD) or best in slot still (SGS, Armadyl, Bandos). 

Perhaps going into this I worded it in a way that made it sound more like me complaining or something, reading things back I certainly could've said some things better. I agree fully with the fact that we need new items and the game would be dead if we didn't get them as well as the fact that well, it'd be pretty boring. I fully acknowledge power creep is quite necessary in a game like this and that's it a thing, though the rate at which it happens is my main concern, I think overall it's been ~okay~ on OSRS with a few exceptions. My main concern is that with how these items have depreciated over time, the rate at which items crash may accelerate as they struggle to find a niche to fill and ultimately end up having to release new bis gear. I just don't really want to see everything besides a few bis items end up being extremely cheap because it does to some degree make the content less worthwhile for those who do it. Things certainly don't need to stay the price they are on release, but looking at really enjoyable content and seeing all the rewards plummet besides 1-2 is a bit sad, it kind of takes away the excitement of getting a rare drop. I suppose if they bring new items and content into the game at a reasonable rate, meaning there's something new to grind out with valuable rewards other than the items we have now currently dropping in price, it would perhaps be alright, though I still think a few item sinks couldn't hurt for certain items and hopefully they've learned not to do 1 time use per account type items like dex/arcane. 

[Adam_ 1,075]

11 minutes ago, Pietru said:

 

 

What do you think could be done to "fix" the prices of some currently low valued items?

Buff easily farmable bosses with expensive items (GWD bosses) and potentially balance out certain items

 

 

Agreed that bots and goldfarmers a pretty significant issue that they'll hopefully deal with a bit better moving forward. Out of curiosity, what would you have in mind for something like this? A flat out buff to the bosses or perhaps alongside something else?

[Howl 949]

1 hour ago, Adam_ said:

I guess my main question to you would be do you think an item sink in the form of a skill or something would work? I believe it's called invention on RS3 which is basically just sacrificing items for exp or better items or both or something along those lines, and it's seemingly kept some items, even items far more outdated than they are on OSRS (dks rings, godswords, etc) somewhat valuable instead of essentially free. Obviously not what they were worth pre eoc or when they were bis, but something at least. The more i've seen a lot of prices crash, the more i've felt perhaps it could work if implemented properly, though it could ultimately just be a bandaid fix to an issue that, as you said, may not be solved or doesn't necessarily need solving.

Maybe, it would have to pass a poll though which I just don't see happening. I think a better solution would be to make more BiS items degradable.

 

1 hour ago, Adam_ said:

Also appreciate the response, obviously I know my topics and responses get quite long and overwhelming some times but you always have good contributions/replies.

 

Going to be real with you - the topics of discussion are good, but walls of text are going to turn people off in a huge way from replying seriously. If you focused more on 2-3 good questions with short, succinct answers to them, you would get way better responses.

[Adam_ 1,075]

3 minutes ago, Howl said:

Maybe, it would have to pass a poll though which I just don't see happening. I think a better solution would be to make more BiS items degradable.

 

Going to be real with you - the topics of discussion are good, but walls of text are going to turn people off in a huge way from replying seriously. If you focused more on 2-3 good questions with short, succinct answers to them, you would get way better responses.

If it got to a point I could see it passing a poll, but yeah I think you're right about it not happening now. The only other way would be as an integrity change, but fitting in a new skill as an integrity change I don't think is going to happen nor would the community appreciate it. Degradable items would certainly be interesting.

 

And yeah, i've always had issues with running on a bit much especially when writing or typing. It's mainly just that I want to try and include all the info I can but I know it certainly seems like an atrocity to some people (understandably so), it's certainly something I try to work on from time to time but this topic certainly slipped through the cracks. Will try to do it a bit better in the future though 

[Pietru 1,242]

4 minutes ago, Adam_ said:

Agreed that bots and goldfarmers a pretty significant issue that they'll hopefully deal with a bit better moving forward. Out of curiosity, what would you have in mind for something like this? A flat out buff to the bosses or perhaps alongside something else?

I mean nerfing items will only make their value drop down even harder but buffing them will make them too overpowered and make easily farmed bosses' drop go down even further. At this point the most you could really do is introduce new content and leave the old content behind in order for the game to progress (like Jagex is doing right now), that is the nature of power creep

 

I think a flat out buff to certain lower tier bosses would help slightly in the long run but I don't think it would have too much of an effect since there are many people with max gear now

[@The End 2,074]

@Adam_

 

 

[Howl 949]

10 minutes ago, The End said:

@Adam_

 

 

serial killer

[Adam_ 1,075]

3 hours ago, The End said:

@Adam_

 

 

so it's your fault 👀what are you going to crash next