Do You Love to Hate?

[S3lvah 291]

Over the years, there's been countless examples of clans' leaderships making another clan into a target, and, one way or another, trying to make their existence miserable in order to boost their own clan's activity and morale. This might either happen for good reason, or just out of perceived necessity to make enemies, and it might involve crashing, propaganda and sometimes even illegalities.

 

However, there have also been clans known for steering clear from this, and still managing to thrive. And everything in between, such as clans that only crash back in retaliation. Not gonna name clans as examples; if you've been around, you'll be able to think of some for each category.

 

Feel free to post whatever comes to mind regarding this topic, but here's a few conversation-starter questions, should you find them interesting:

 

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?)

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?

 

3. What are your moral (ethical) and psychological (health-related) thoughts on these types of motivation – in RS and life in general?

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by S3lvah

[Pietru 1,231]

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?)

Probably in between for this, my motivation is there from both sides of that coin, I like the toxicity as long as boundaries are kept etc.. but at the same time I am motivated by positivity as well to clan

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?

I think negatively motivated clans have seen more success in this just because people enjoy trash talking more online than being positive. Not to say that positive 'honor' clans haven't seen success though in the past

 

3. What are your moral (ethical) and psychological (health-related) thoughts on these types of motivation – in RS and life in general?

I believe you have to have a mix of both in order to stay motivated; one or the other gets boring on its own IMO both on RS and in real life

[Adam_ 1,033]

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?)

 

im not motivated to clan but in general with playing and things it's more positive

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?

positive for sure though negative can have its perks for sure, the problem is when it's negative people also don't know how to behave within reason and you end up with all sorts of shit that shouldn't happen over a game lol

 

3. What are your moral (ethical) and psychological (health-related) thoughts on these types of motivation – in RS and life in general?

in general revenge/grudges/demotivating people etc isn't generally ethically good or psychologically good

that being said focusing on purely positivity can also have some downsides, gotta be careful 

[Kura 373]

I think it's safe to say that at their prime both RSD and ROT were successful doing the exact opposite the other did. IMO any clan can thrive either by playing by the books or being completely chaotic. Personally I would feel safer in the first kind but would be more motivated in the second.

 

Detaching your real persona from your online self can be very healthy if it means getting some stress relief out of being retard on purpose sometimes lmao. As long as you keep IRL stuff off the table then I don't think it can cause any harm psychologically, even if it's not completely ethical (leaking, spying, crashing).

[Amulet 191]

Luckily for me, I haven't had to deal with too much toxicity over the years. I've never been involved in crash wars either. 

 

Tbh, I feel like a positive environment is necessary to thrive as a clan. Toxicity and beefing with other clans can have its perks (since you can create drama and increase activity), however, I believe you can only go so far with this before it takes a toll on your clan (and the enemy clan). 

[Vanzant 1,380]

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?) Clan wise positive things, real life I'd be both

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?   There isn't a difference. Any clan that excels is all based on perspective on top of motivation.

 

3. What are your moral (ethical) and psychological (health-related) thoughts on these types of motivation – in RS and life in general? We're human, it is what it is. We try to over analyze success but there are so many factors you really can't.

[≈Flukejiver 1,183]

2 hours ago, Amulet said:

Luckily for me, I haven't had to deal with too much toxicity over the years. I've never been involved in crash wars either. 

 

Tbh, I feel like a positive environment is necessary to thrive as a clan. Toxicity and beefing with other clans can have its perks (since you can create drama and increase activity), however, I believe you can only go so far with this before it takes a toll on your clan (and the enemy clan). 

100%

[Josh 137]

Clan beefing was fun, totally fine to "hate" another clan and be motivated to fight them,  but some people get far too obsessed and make their entire clan revolve around another clan... Not to mention ddosing, doxing etc. 

 

 

I always thought of clans like VR and RoT in the unhealthy category, where their members/leadership would just model their entire clan and events on another clan. 

Then there's the other side, like TT vs DF rivalry, where both clans "hated" each other but it wasn't unhealthy. Fights together were big, but when you didn't fight you didn't go out of your way to ruin the other clans fight with someone else. 

[Ace 632]

1)

The thrill of competitive fights and potentially getting bested is a big motivator, along with wanting to improve. As I've gotten older I've wanted to deal with drama and immaturity less, which includes long drawn out crash wars. Granted, my tolerance for this is higher as long as the focus is on enemies outside of my clan, rather than potential enemies within.

I might have brief flashes of anger which can lead to wanting to punish other clans and demotivate them, but for the most part a lot of that isn't actually me or something I want to do. Rather most of the time it's me doing what needs to be done. It brings me no joy to demotivate, harm or work towards the closure of another clan, but if that other clan actively works towards the closure of whatever clan/community I'm in, then there's no other choice for me.

-

2)

Positive for certain. A positive environment on the inside is what keeps clans going. Crash wars can be used as motivation for improvement, but when the crash war finishes most clans lose that motivation(not to confuse rivalry with crash wars). Threatening clan members actively almost never improves performance in any meaningful way and instead usually pisses them off. Negativity doesn't build communities, it doesn't promote long term growth. 

-

3)

While I have strict moral beliefs when it comes to the treatment of anyone as human beings, I realize that most of the times this doesn't matter to most when it comes to creating high performance environments. I would love to uphold and enforce these strict morals as much as possible, but unfortunately the only way to convince any community to do so is to convince them how it will benefit them. And there are benefits, just simply not enough to always create the pure ethically clean environments that I desire. Action is often only taken when necessary and it's done in the most efficient manner, rather than being done more consistently. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Ace

[Rayden 4]

hate is bad

[Joe 254]

If your clan identity is hating other clans I couldn't be there, I only get on a couple of hours a week to chill with people I've known for years. For keeping people around you need the positive things and for activity you usually have to lean into the negative things but officials should understand want their members wants. 5 Years ago I probably enjoyed winding up other clans a lot more than I would now. 

 

If your ddosing/doxing people in 2021 over runescape you probably have to go outside and touch some grass though 

[alice 317]

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?)

 

motivated by positive performances the competition, i don't care really about the negative things unless someone has personally wronged me

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?

 

some clans use positive and other clans use negative. the clans using negative sometimes can target the clans using positive to thrive

 

[JayJay 78]

Hate everyone

[Christy 3]

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?)

 

Personally, and I think this probably goes for most I think people just join clans for the community.  On it's face that is always a positive motivation.  However, over time if you've been in clans that have closed to others, been in crash wars, or even if you've been personally targeted by random shit like flaming or ddosing I think it warps people's motivations.  Managing apps in like 4 different clans I met a lot of people new to clanning and saw this cycle repeat itself a lot.  You can see it in how the same members will trickle thru clans that are 'against' certain others (take the AF/Rot rivalry, those people stay on those same opposing sides in dozens of clans for years on end).

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?

 

The best clans were always the positive ones and not the ones that just existed to destroy another.  You can look at all the best clans throughout RS history and even look the eras they thrived the most and see that to be true.

 

3. What are your moral (ethical) and psychological (health-related) thoughts on these types of motivation – in RS and life in general?

 

I think because the pvp clan community in RS has existed for almost 2 decades and has shrunk so much that a lot of what you're left with is the hate.  Tempest appears to be more of an outlier than the norm.

[Lavigne 901]

1. Are you motivated to clan by

-> "positive" things, like warring skills (honing & using), gaming with friends, gameplay, the thrill of competition; or

-> "negative" things like giving bad people what they deserve, demotivating your opponents, weakening / closing bad clans, or your enemies' impotent hatred towards you?

(And if both, which one chiefly?)

 

Competition & m8s - you learn the latter means more than anything else at some point. I don't care for negative shit. I've run a multigaming community for 17 years and seen everything, we've had our forums hacked, teamspeak hacked, counter strike servers griefed, solo queue matches griefed, members doxed, ddosed, and we've done everything in the book back because over the years we've had police, tax officials, all kinds of shit working in REIGN and it's like "whatever they do to us we'll do worse back". Then we became adults and we don't want any of that shit, we just remove the entire clan from the situation and outright ban anyone from being involved in the other side (for example, people in REIGN are not allowed to join Method on WoW, Entropy on FFXIV, or Revenant & Reign of Terror on RS. FoE (FFXIV) players cannot join REIGN. Our eSports players are not permitted to play for Method, Evil Geniuses or Team Dignitas due to previous issues - they would have to leave REIGN and most won't.). 

 

So yeah, when I see ROT and Revenant dox each other I'm like "fuckin grow up both of you". Being proud of it is super cringe.

 

2. Which type of motivation ("positive" or "negative"), if any, do you perceive as having better driven clans to succeed?

Negative, I'm pretty sure if most clans flame or ddos you you wanna beat the shit out of them. Look at ROT, they thrive on having pissed everyone off and being 1v3'd at almost every turn. But I'd say it was balanced pre-EOC. Positive in the sense that many clans wanted to rank up on RAW or just prove they were better whilst keeping it respectful (EH, RSD, FEAR etc), whilst some wanted to just be kings of settling beef in the wild (VR, EOS, TT, ROT)

 

3. What are your moral (ethical) and psychological (health-related) thoughts on these types of motivation – in RS and life in general?

FFXIV players are worse, mentally than people on this game ever will be lol. I think the fact people on this game take pride out of taking issues out of the game and affecting people's personal lives is extremely fucked.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Lavigne