Decriminalization of drugs

[Adam_ 1,034]

So obviously this topic will differ for many people here since not everyone on these forums is American. Some European countries have already done this and it wouldn't surprise me if others had as well. Oregon became the first state to decriminalize possession of all drugs this past November which did catch me by surprise to some extent. Over the past few elections some states have decriminalized or legalized Marijuana which didn't surprise me as much given that it's considerably less harmful than the majority of other common drugs people use recreationally, but the jump to decriminalizing them all still wasn't something I was quite expecting. However, after a bit of research (not going to pretend I know a ton about this subject but I think it's a good one to discuss and i'd like to see what people have to say) it seems that it works quite well in some of the countries that have done it. A lot of articles that show up mention Portugal as essentially being the most successful to have done it and even suggesting that perhaps following their model is a better answer than continuing to treat it the way we (the 49 other states and several other countries) do. When decriminalized the drugs still remain illegal but you aren't looking at jail time for possession or anything but rather a fine or court ordered therapy (this may differ depending on where, not sure). 

 

A bit of personal background: I'm not someone who really has a ton of first hand experience in that other than having smoked marijuana a few times in my life with friends mostly as a teenager I haven't done any other drugs. However, i've definitely had friends even those i've known since childhood get more involved in drugs and some of them even become drug dealers. Thinking about someone you grew up with having a serious problem isn't really pleasant nor is seeing their life deteriorate because of a horrible addiction. It's also no secret not all drugs are created equal and some, mainly heroine, are much worse and the effects they have on people including those who end up having their lives claimed are quite alarming, so seeing the effects it has on one's home state and country is very sad. While I don't really partake myself it's definitely touched my life.

 

I think there are some obvious pros and cons to this, though it's really just what comes to mind for me personally:

 

Pros:

Less people sitting rotting in prison for drug related offenses especially those that don't hurt anyone (not claiming that no drug related offenses have victims btw)

Increased likelihood of someone getting proper help for drug addiction instead of avoiding it due to fear of legal repercussions

People actually calling for medical help due to drug related issues or even overdoses instead of avoiding doing so out of fear of getting into legal trouble

 

Cons:

Though selling them etc would still not be fully legal so it wouldn't necessarily make them more easy to obtain, I do question whether or not it'd actually be easier for people to get ahold of the stuff and thus essentially get addicted which is obviously not something that's good

The drug trade is obviously widely run by criminals and unsavory characters, often dangerous individuals and not infrequently those tied to other crime. No i'm not talking about the 23 year old that sells you marijuana out of his mom's basement but the actual criminal element associated with the drug trade. I do question what decriminalizing what such a large part of their revenue stream is would do and how it may effect other things, as well as potentially even giving them more control over things.

 

Probably missed a fair bit but i'm sure other people will mention it

 

Do you think the countries that have decriminalized are on to something?
Perhaps, I haven't done proper research but it seems Portugal in particular handle things quite well, and it seems like a lot of things could be handled better especially in America.

 

Do you think Oregon decriminalizing was a good idea? (Mostly a question for Americans but others feel free to answer)

I think it's an interesting test of sorts to see how it goes, if it does end up going well and is handled properly, serving as a better solution than what's currently done in the "war on drugs" as it's called, perhaps it could serve as a better model for other states.

 

Do you think other states will follow suit?

I think it will largely depend on if Oregon is successful or a trainwreck because obviously if the negatives outweigh the positives I would be concerned if other states wanted to do that as well.

 

Would you be alright with your state (or for non Americans, your country) doing the same as Oregon has? Is there anything you would change?

Both pretty contingent on how things go there though I do very much like the idea of people I know or see with clear addictions getting actual help instead of potential jail time I also know they also need to want to get help for it to have any real effect

 

For easy copy/paste:

Do you think the countries that have decriminalized are on to something?

Do you think Oregon decriminalizing was a good idea? (Mostly a question for Americans but others feel free to answer)

Do you think other states will follow suit?

Would you be alright with your state doing the same as Oregon has? Is there anything you would change?

[Scleritis 981]

yer

[Pope 1]

There's 0 reason for any drugs to be criminalized. If the food industry, alcohol industry, and cigarette industry have free rein to profit off the people's inevitability of self-destruction, there's no reason to stop the drug industry from doing it as well. Hell, decriminalization isn't far enough. I'm in favor of full legality. Think of how much the cartels and organized crime would crumble without drugs to profit off. Granted, there'll likely still be a market for street sales (legal weed for example is usually 2-3x more expensive than street weed, but you do pay for the convenience, quality, and variety).

 

No one has the right to criminalize me for what I choose to put in my body. That's the end of it.

[≈Flukejiver 1,183]

5 minutes ago, Scleritis said:

yer

 

[danex 460]

nty

[Adam_ 1,034]

4 minutes ago, Pope said:

There's 0 reason for any drugs to be criminalized. If the food industry, alcohol industry, and cigarette industry have free rein to profit off the people's inevitability of self-destruction, there's no reason to stop the drug industry from doing it as well. Hell, decriminalization isn't far enough. I'm in favor of full legality. Think of how much the cartels and organized crime would crumble without drugs to profit off. Granted, there'll likely still be a market for street sales (legal weed for example is usually 2-3x more expensive than street weed, but you do pay for the convenience, quality, and variety).

 

No one has the right to criminalize me for what I choose to put in my body. That's the end of it.

Agree with most of this but in reference to you saying cartels and organized crime crumbling without the ability to profit off drugs, I thought back to a topic on the forums about legalizing prostitution and how many people brought up that it didn't really do anything to get rid of the organized crime element and actually just brought a lot of shady characters around to the places it was legalized. I'm not necessarily sure if there's anything that prevents the same from being the case with legalization of drugs. 

 

As for decriminalizing and pretty much everything else you said I agree, as long as it doesn't somehow royally fuck things up or make them worse I see no issue with decriminalization.  Edit: Perhaps not "no issue" but limited issues and far less than the current issues with how things are treated

Edited March 31, 2021 by Adam_

[≈Flukejiver 1,183]

Do you think the countries that have decriminalized are on to something? 

- so I’m going to specifically talk about marijuana since that seems to be the hot topic. Yes, it should of been decriminalized a long as time ago. 

 

Do you think Oregon decriminalizing was a good idea? (Mostly a question for Americans but others feel free to answer)

- like I said, not all drugs should be decriminalized. 

 

Do you think other states will follow suit?

- no, I think marijuana will be legal for every state by the end of 2021

 

Would you be alright with your state doing the same as Oregon has? Is there anything you would change?

- No

[Howl 946]

Do you think the countries that have decriminalized are on to something?

Yeah, possibly.

 

Do you think Oregon decriminalizing was a good idea? (Mostly a question for Americans but others feel free to answer)

Well the American strategy of deterrence hasn't worked at all, so we might as well try something new. I think there are a lot of drugs that should merely be regulated (Marijuana, LSD, etc.) and others that should be reevaluated. Criminalization of drugs just put more people into the prison system and has proven wholly ineffective.

 

Do you think other states will follow suit?

Probably, seems like the same path the legalization of Marijuana took? Everyone said "your kids are all going to become druggies" to states that legalized it, yet here we are and society hasn't burned down.

 

Would you be alright with your state doing the same as Oregon has? Is there anything you would change?

Yeah sure. Can't think of anything I'd change off the top of my head.

[Pope 1]

Just now, Adam_ said:

Agree with most of this but in reference to you saying cartels and organized crime crumbling without the ability to profit off drugs, I thought back to a topic on the forums about legalizing prostitution and how many people brought up that it didn't really do anything to get rid of the organized crime element and actually just brought a lot of shady characters around to the places it was legalized. I'm not necessarily sure if there's anything that prevents the same from being the case with legalization of drugs. 

 

As for decriminalizing and pretty much everything else you said I agree, as long as it doesn't somehow royally fuck things up or make them worse I see no issue with decriminalization. 

The difference is that when a person is the product, they can be blackmailed, scared, coerced, threatened, manipulated, brainwashed, whatever else. The same cannot be said from an inanimate substance. The only organized crime who'd be getting involved in legal drug trade, would be the same greedy corporations as always.

[Sus 136]

lock up all drug addicts

[Adam_ 1,034]

Just now, Pope said:

The difference is that when a person is the product, they can be blackmailed, scared, coerced, threatened, manipulated, brainwashed, whatever else. The same cannot be said from an inanimate substance. The only organized crime who'd be getting involved in legal drug trade, would be the same greedy corporations as always.

Good point. I guess they can't really stop others from doing what they are currently doing with it being illegal and it would in turn likely actually hurt their revenue stream, though that would presumably only be with full legalization as opposed to decriminalization I imagine. 

[Pope 1]

Just now, Adam_ said:

Good point. I guess they can't really stop others from doing what they are currently doing with it being illegal and it would in turn likely actually hurt their revenue stream, though that would presumably only be with full legalization as opposed to decriminalization I imagine. 

As I said, full legalization wouldn't rid us of cartels and gangs. But it would take a LOT of their profit. And without as much money, they're weaker and and easier to deal with (to an extent). As opposed to decades of data of a failed "war on drugs" campaign that shows us that punishing the sick, the self-destructive does not work. It alienates and ruins lives. Someone shouldn't be marked as a felon for life and have no chance of working because they chose to medicate themselves with a joint instead of a bottle of whiskey.

[Out 315]

No

[£Sir Severed 593]

Do you think the countries that have decriminalized are on to something?

Sure

 

Do you think Oregon decriminalizing was a good idea? (Mostly a question for Americans but others feel free to answer)

No because the PNW has the highest rate of insanity in the USA and they don't need to make it worse but I'm down with the idea

 

Do you think other states will follow suit?

Hopefully

 

Would you be alright with your state doing the same as Oregon has? Is there anything you would change?

Fuck off you don't deserve to tax my drugs extra

[Scumpr 310]

Man, Those drugs being illegal sure does cut down on the overdoses in my area.... /end sarcasm

 

While addiction is a problem, the pills etc are coming from somewhere local in most cases. Acting like they all have some super illegal source when doctors will very quickly prescribe them seems unfair. Hell, just recently one of my best friends did a follow up with a different doctor than normal about some breathing issues (her doctor was on vacation). She explained it has been happening worse since the weather has changed and the windows etc have been open more, and wondered if they should possibly adjust the dosage of her allergy medication with it becoming spring.  They asked if any changes had happened in life recently, and she answered she had accepted a new position in hew company a few weeks back, but thinks they are unrelated.... Here is your 30 day prescription for Xanex, we will follow up with you. Mind you again this was for difficulty breathing that has only onset since the weather has been changing.

 

Addicts are getting these drugs somewhere, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news.... But its not all "The cartel". Unless you are lumping pharma companies and bad doctors in that. 

 

In short, Legalize it all and let morons kill themselves if that's what they want to do in life. You can drink yourself into liver failure or smoke your way into lung cancer.... Why is this any different?

Edited March 31, 2021 by Scumpr