3lite
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Posts posted by 3lite
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19 minutes ago, true said:
Question for @3lite
Could you tell me more about your time in Gladz and how that prepared you for EH?
I was really young and emotionally immature in Gladz, but was present in Gladz at their peak as a Rider of Rohan (pk leader). I was an active figure in the community and saw value in skiller/community style events. I was also very active as a PKer, whereas much of the Gladz community was skillers or uninterested in pking, and I led a small group of people that primarily focused on P2P. So, positives from Gladz, were that I knew how to work within a community with a mix of skillers, community members, and pkers, and that I got my first experiences leading in battle. I do not believe my experience in Gladz greatly shaped the style of community in EH (skilling events/community focused) and believe that EH still would have gone that route even if I were not in the EH leadership team.
However, people learn as much from the negatives as they do from the positives. Gladiatorz leaders had a fairly hands-off approach to to leading and generally let members do as they pleased. While I was in Gladz, there were several (fairly disconnected) pking teams, the most famous of which was likely the Ewhenn/Geezerpunk team. Few tried to unite all of these disparate groups for a common Gladz purpose (Finaltank comes to mind trying to adapt Gladz for large-scale F2P fights). On forums, Gladz members could openly flame or be toxic to other Gladz members, without retaliation from leadership and with other Gladz stepping in to join the fun. I left Gladz due to frustrations with the leadership and because I didn't feel like Gladz were adapting from warring to Pking. When I joined ST, I was fortunate enough to be led by Flummbullen, who had a professional leadership style very different from the Gladiatorz. I tried to take what I learned from positive experiences with ST and negative experiences with Gladz leadership to be better in EH than I was in Gladz.
With all that said, the biggest inspiration for me as a leader was Broski. Prior to being a head leader in EH, Broski worked hard to mentor me and foster my growth. -
2 hours ago, Patrick said:
is your favorite color green
Gladz and EH1 hour ago, Hat said:who was your best binder / blaster and why was it @Rclav
This is too tough to answer. Rclav was awesome. Mooij, Giedriuz, Dopie, Majin, Vono, Cobalt, Fiercechamp, Alex Osu, Lil Blaknite, and many others were always binding.23 minutes ago, Applerune said:Hello! Thanks for doing the AMA.
Lots of talk about COR from 3lite - I wonder what your take is on your retirement fight and "3lites castle." Forgive me for not remembering every detail and if any of that was wrong feel free to correct. I mean this as no disrespect at all... but I don't remember losing to EH (joined in 2008). Can you expand on that March 2009 fight? Seems you remember things a bit better than I do.
I remember things a little bit differently than others in EH I've spoken to on the battle records with Corr. I remember EH performing pretty well against VR, EoS, and DI (clans we were more motivated to fight). I remember EH performing more poorly against TT and DF (clans we had less motivation to fight), but still could pull out wins. I remember that we fought Corr extremely rarely, which was unusual for a clan that we saw as an enemy clan. Corr was very difficult for me to plan fights with, as I felt they were less willing to accept fights with EH unless there were lopsided rules in their favor and I believe we were guilty of the same. I remember Andy as being the leader I worked best with.
The few times we did fight Corr, I remember having an atrocious record against them (if I had to guess, probably ~20-30% win ratio). Corr seemed to really know how to beat us, even in periods when EH was generally considered on par with or stronger than Corr.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the 3lite's castle fight was different from the March 2009 fight. It all blurs together. I remember winning the March 2009 fight (topic here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/eternal_honour/eternal-honour-vs-corruption-t24.html; Video here:I remember losing the 3lite's castle fight, but I remember that it was very hard fought on Corr's part with EH having the upperhand most of the fight. While it was a Corr victory as best I can remember, I don't remember walking away from that one feeling too disheartened or disappointed. I was thicker skinned than many and didn't really take flames or personal insults seriously. The 3lite's castle thing never really got to me, and so there is no offense taken by your post. Lastly, perhaps the 3lite's castle fight occurred either later or earlier on than March 2009... I actually think it was maybe in 2008ish as I retired twice and I believe the second time was after a fight with DF in 2009.
Speaking to Nullusion and some other members, they think that I'm misremembering things and that our record against Corr wasn't as bad as I remember it to be. So I'd love to hear what S17, Grug, or Xero's thoughts are on what I mentioned above.
For you, @Applerune, I have a question about your perception and thoughts on EH. I have long suspected that whereas Corr had respect for VR, EoS, DF, and others as being threats, I think Corr viewed EH as an enemy, but an inferior one. This, in turn, made it really hard for Corr to give us a win, even in situations where it was 10 hours in and Corr looked beat. The wins that we took off Corr were really hard earned and, to this day, I think Corr was our "weakness" when it came to clans. Even though I wasn't fond of Corr 10 years ago, respect to you and the Corr guys for your strength and tenacity against EH.
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33 minutes ago, Adam_ said:
Is there another game (doesn't have to have been out at the time though obviously it only would've worked that way in actuality) you could've seen yourselves successfully moving to instead of closing, similar to how EoS moved to Albion albeit after a bit of waiting? What game?
I, unfortunately, don't think so. A few people remained together playing WoW. About 5-10 of us played Dota together. There were a few other games that our members played together on, but nothing with the scale of RS that would support a large part of the community.Do you guys play any other games now?
Check Grug's stream:@3lite You posted a rather detailed but accurate post imo about why the clan world is the way it is and mentioned how a lot of it is resultant of a strong level of toxicity. If you were put in charge or advising someone put in charge who had full control over the clan world and could make whatever changes, what would you do to address this level of toxicity within reason? Aka banning certain individuals, putting physical ingame restrictions in place such as preventing 1 iteming, creating certain game rules, or whatever else? This is assuming you were to prevent the "kings of ashes" so to speak but obviously with a bit more power than the general player or clan leader would have, but presumably without just saying 'ok we're all just doing CWA now'.
I think you nailed it in your next question. I think there would need to be something like a council of like-minded clan leaders getting together to set up rules that all would make a pact to abide by. The collective group would need to have each other's back, putting differences aside, in matters like ACing. Someone crashes a fight? Both clans temporarily stop to battle that clan, calling others in the group to AC. When a strong AC force arrives, the two initial battling clans agree to hop worlds. The crashing clan hops too? Repeat the process. It wouldn't be fun for the crashing clan and those in the group could gloat about how the crashers were running from/hopping away from an AC force. I have no idea if this has been tried already and has failed (very likely).
I believe the above idea is too idealic and near impossible to achieve because I think members of the group would try to use it as a tool for their own advancement. For example, some in the group might not be willing to AC, seeing it as a waste of time. Additionally, I think if the clan world were successful in recovering a bit, there would be less incentive to abide by such a pact. Therefore, I think the solution I have is not a good one.
As far as implementing actual in-game restrictions with mod-style powers. I don't think I'd do that. I think that system already largely exists in CWA. In CWA you 1.) can't crash, 2.) are penalized for wearing 1 iteming or bad gear through high deaths, 3.) if you try to outlast, it shows you with a terrible K:D, 4.) can set rules if you wish in the interface, and 5.) have a clear winner in the end.
I do believe that @true appears to be a very intelligent leader, who is much more well-versed in the current situation than I am and has genuine good intentions for the clan world. Between him, and the other great leaders at Tempest, I believe they're going to work out something to make the world a little better. I'm excited to see what the future holds in that regard, but my ideas above probably aren't the solution.
^ If any of the other 3 of you would want to answer that as well then feel free i'd love to hear the answers.It's the peak of EH and you're in a meeting with 1 representative from each clan at the time to discuss the clan world, the issues it has and the future of it. Which person would you ideally be dealing with from each clan?
Using the time frame for which I was most familiar with (sorry to officials who were not active in this timeframe). Disclaimer: I don't know some of the individuals really well on a personal level, and therefore my statements are based on impressions that I remember from 10 years ago.
Corr - Andy4309 - Always had respect for this guy. He was pleasant to work with and I believe capable of "outside of the box" thinking necessary for such a group.
DF - Legolas - No disrespect to anyone else in DF. Lego seemed like an intelligent leader and I hadn't worked as much with many of the other DF leaders.
DI - Brian - Sole leader of DI and strategic in his approach; I think he is necessary in this role.
EoS - Prannoy - Aside from working with Cheezy a little bit, I had the most interaction with Prannoy. I saw him as a "no bullshit" individual who was to the point. An attitude like that simultaneously could have the power to get things done on a group like this, or cause it to quickly disband.
RSD - Icedrop - For reasons mentioned previously in the post; very calculated, though I could see him potentially being stubborn.
TT - Bishinmo - He would really hate if it I called him this and I'm sure someone from TT is going to message me later and make fun of me for this - the Prannoy of TT. I saw Bishinmo as a "no bullshit" guy who set up a code and lived by it.
VR - Nodari or Evizu - Nodari was a high council, but I felt like he was someone who I was able to work across the table with. If it has to be a leader, I don't remember much about Evizu, but those in VR that mention him see him as an intelligent and fair leader. I've never heard a VR member speak badly about Evizu or Nodari, and I can't say the same for many other VR officials.
For the record, I believe from EH that Islamia would be a better stand-in than I would be for such a group. Islamia was more diplomatic and I was so hyper-focused on tactical advantages to gain an edge that I would be more likely to have EH's interests at heart in a discussion to benefit the clan world. I believe that Broski would be a better choice than I would be as well, though I think Islamia's charisma and ability to reach across the table may serve the group better than Broski, who could be a bit more rigid.
3 hours ago, I Kill Batty said:What did each of you feel were the peaks of the clan? what made you feel that way?
I'd say EH had three peaks.
One was early in our life span where we were fighting DS and DI, pulling between 90-100 people to most fights.
Mid-lifespan we had a really good period that (I think) started with an official war with VR where we maxed options. It was a good impetus to performing really well for awhile.
The last peak was in Spring 2009, where we were pulling 90-130 and (in a row) defeated Corr, VR, RSD, and DF.
I judge those peaks off of strength.
For me, there was also a peak sometime in late 2007 or early 2008, where I was really loving the community activity. I was playing Dota most nights with Medlin, Tyreal, Durrette, and others. I was doing god wars a lot with 8309, Ultimoruss, Islamia, Ava Ad0re, Broski, and others. Our Ventrilo was really active and I could go pal around with everyone pretty much any time of day. Things just felt really good.
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1 hour ago, Eric`` said:
How many times did you each strike @MILAD
Milad was in a close running with Warren, Gaterbait, and Devil for the most number of strikes achieved. ?1 hour ago, Yoto32 said:I'm doing real well, started an ironman almost two years ago and I've been having the most fun on rs I ever had. What have you been up to?
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread before but I cbf to go back and read 9 pages of conversation. What type of clan was EH that attracted so many mature people? What set it apart from the other clans, and were there active steps taken by EH leadership to attract those kind of people or was it organic and members just sort of self-selected? It's funny, I'm pretty sure the entire clan world was in their teens back then, and teenagers aren't exactly known for their maturity.Yea it was really just to keep up appearances, because no doubt that EH members would have been objective and restrained moderating their own topics. And that was Brad's big problem, because not only did we mostly just promote EH members, but current CLs kept joining them! Now that I think about it I think it was specifically you joining EH that prompted Brad's post. Unfortunately that was not one of the topics I saved, but it's still stuck in my mind.
I think we just really valued trying not to be a negative force in the community and valued not resorting to inflammatory attacks on other people/clans. While resorting to those things might be temporarily and personally satisfying, we didn't see it as a positive contribution to either our relationship to other clans or to our community as a whole.
I've no doubt that some viewed our rules on Zybez conduct as pretentious. @Mk 17 probably pictures all our members showing up to PKRIs in their Sunday best, hair slicked back and well styled, perhaps sipping a nice chamomile with pinky out, and talking about the latest curling game. Only 25% of that image is true (dang Canadians) and at the end of the day, I think we were just a group of folks with a set of values, trying to do what we thought was the right thing in a world where all clans had a very different atmosphere.
EH leadership never actively sought to recruit a certain set of people, but I do think the mentality was more appealing to some than others.
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6 hours ago, true said:
Who would you say is the most overrated clan of all time?
I'll let others answer as I spoke to this one a bit, but for me SE. I can't assign any of the clans that contested #1 during the period of activity (VR, EoS, TT, RSD, DI, DF) to an overrated category, because they all had their moments of greatness.5 hours ago, MILAD said:Do you believe that EH reached the maximum that we could've reached? Did we have any more things to achieve that we didn't and what was the reason? Also, I now remember that you also played WoW, but my question is: What do you think about the outcasts (that's what they were called, the WoW crew that seperated a bit from the community and some even skipped events too, by specifically Flavofaven99 back then (may God bless that cute voice of his)) and what kind of impact did they have on EH as a whole?
In regards to the question above, this is is somehow connected. Do you remember at one point we had a few key members leave for TT? Finalman123, Warren121212, Devil1081, Gilby18, Ptw Matrix3, etc etc. Why do you think they all left simultaneously and what was the cause of it? I remember Warren121212 stirring up a lot of shit on forums/IRC about how we're very cautious with everything, we don't take risks, we don't try and push for our maximal potential that we know we have within the clan, and so on. It is possible though that some of these names were kicked, but it has been 11 years, so my memory of it is vague.
Thank you ❤️
I don't believe EH reached the maximum it could have, but reflecting back on EH, I think we had a few major weaknesses in our core thought processes and planning strategies that could have improved us.
1.) Recruitment - We never focused on this very much and a steady influx of new members would have helped us to advance greatly.
2.) Try to be the best - One systemic philosophical problem was that EH generally strived to be better than whoever our opponent for the week was. Our goal should have been more focused on being #1 rather than better than individual clans.
3.) More thought from our pk leaders prior to getting into fights - Some of our pk leaders just wanted to pk. EH was a clan that was less active than many of its contemporaries. We had a lot more members interested in community and non-warring events than many other clans. I think it was very easy to get goaded into a disadvantageous, spur of the moment fight from clans like EoS and VR. Instant activity was the strength of EoS and VR, so by falling for goading, EH pk leaders were essentially being manipulated by other clans into a disadvantageous position. It did not help that we had ~20 vocal members that wanted more activity but that a large number of the other members did not share that sentiment (this issue greatly divided the community). Because a good portion of our core did not want, did not know about, or did not participate in spur of the moment PKs, a lack of recognition of the detriment to high activity by some pk leaders (who only saw high activity as a positive) was a major tactical flaw.
A second weakness I saw was that some PK leaders were more willing to treat clans like SE, Col, CR, and (to a lesser extent) EoS as serious competition. For better or for worse, and likely as detriment to the aforementioned clans, I worked to shape the EH mentality to not see those clans as competition but rather to see them as inferior. By portraying those clans as inferior, it became very hard to lose to them. EoS had periods of being very powerful - definitely more powerful than us. To maintain the mentality that we had set up, we almost never fought EoS when they were strong. There were many times when I think up and coming clans saw EH as their potential entry point into the higher rankings (other than the aforementioned clans, CL and Syndicate also tried to do this). I don't think we were a good stepping stone in that regard because we were too motivated not to lose to someone we viewed as non-competitive.
While I was around, I oversaw the vast majority of the fight planning. However, I had two several month periods of inactivity in EH and the clan became a very different beast. EH had greatly improved activity, but EH also was at its lowest point ranking-wise during these periods. The problem is that neither strategy is objectively better - it depends whether a member cares about high activity or about being a stronger clan. I cared about having a stronger clan and, as such, the tactical decisions I made were often polarizing in the clan.
*Edit* I want to clarify that I did not view #3 as a weakness in pk leaders, who were all dedicated individuals trying to to the best they could for EH and believed they were doing the correct thing. I saw #3 as my own failure for not better mentoring those who I worked with and trying to give a different thought process/set of possible scenarios. By not better fostering strategic thinking and letting people work "in my shoes," I did not do the correct thing in the long term. I really want to reiterate that all our pk leaders were awesome and I wouldn't trade them out for anyone else in the clan world, given the choice.
4.) More willingness from me to contest #1 - Along the lines of #3, I identify a major flaw in my planning methods as planning overly safe fights. I tended to plan fights with clans that we were evenly matched with (competitive fights) or with clans that we would not care to lose to (training style fights; with RDC/TRWF/LF/Etc). This put us in a very stable position (generally rank 3-5), but rarely put us in a position of dominance. If you want to be the best, you have to try to be the best. I was most willing to plan fights to contest #1 when it was likely that we were already #1.
The WoW crew playing WoW was a tough decision for leaders. It was demoralizing for EH members to see a member playing WoW during a pk run-in. At the time, we were thinking that the decision was to kick the members (many of whom were strong community figures with many friends in the clan) or to turn a blind eye. I think there was a third option that we should have pursued. If a member is playing WoW rather than joining us for a PKRI, it is clear where their priorities were at the time. We should have moved them to a retired rank to allow them to return to us when they were ready.
Those that left for TT highly valued PKing activity and saw other clans goading us on Zybez. See 3.) above. I think TT was a curious choice, however, because if they were interested in a clan with similar ideals to EH but wanted activity, I would think that DF would have been a better fit.4 hours ago, Rclav said:Hi Guys,
No questions from me but wanted to express my gratitude towards EH's leadership team. Having been my first "big clan" in RS, I have so many great memories from my time in EH. Everyone here's leadership had a lot to do with that.
Miss you all!
#FindIslamia2020
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12 hours ago, Eric said:
Yeah! i remember having some of those in old clans such as Runeraiders. Also JR clans were a good way to get new people into the pvp aspect of the game.
Not long ago, we had a discussion with Brian i think about how to get new people into pvp clans, my point being clans just don't go after new people but the same clanners all the time, and that is why there aren't as many clans as before.
For example, when i was in TR we created a JR clan where i'd recruit lvls 90-110 that i just met while doing slayer, and after chatting for a while invited them to join. There we'd have some easy fights in cwa, some AC trips and tanking practices which you mentioned for them to get familiar with the dynamics.
So, which other tactics, routines, or just things done as a clan did EH do to get new people into the clanworld?
As S17 mentioned, recruitment tended to be one of our weaker areas. Most of our members came from either the closures of small clans or a community of country clans who joined us as a group (e.g., DE, MMA, SR, FT) or as friends of people in game. We got a few stragglers coming in from other major clans, but I feel like we never were very proactive in recruiting.9 hours ago, Empire Mind said:Hey @3lite @Vanuckle how's it been?
Haven't talked to you 3lite since the good day coming back to OSRS and finding you at the rogue place cooking and we talked for a while and I thought you were coming back to the game at that point.
Did you guys ever feel "hyped/more determined" to winning a fight when going against a certain clan and it'd change your attitude/leadership style for the whole fight?
I believe this question would vary from person to person. Almost everyone in EH was hyped to fight VR and when we had a planned fight, in the days leading up to a VR fight, the forums would flood with a ton of hype topics. People would be making signatures/forum banners to make the fight visible, retired members would be coming out of retirement for the fight, and it would all around be a big boost for the clan.
For me personally, I was most determined to hype/defeat DI. I held a grudge for things mentioned earlier in this topic and so I felt DI was a more dangerous adversary to EH than many of our other rivalries.9 hours ago, I Kill Batty said:What -apart from people quitting- do you feel has lead to the decline of pvp clanning overall?
I may be way off-base here. I haven't been involved in clanning in 10 years so I may have an unrealistic or uneducated view. But here is my best shot at an opinion on this one.
The desire for clans to be the best seems to have always been at odds with the health of the clan world. There are often trade-offs between tactical advantages and what is reasonably fun in a fight. A large proportion of the clan world population would likely say that long fights (8+ hours) were unhealthy and ultimately led to burn out. Yet we all participated in them for that sweet, sweet victory topic at the end. People would probably universally agree that leaving the bounds to regroup in a place where hugging was better was annoying (both for the clan doing it and the opposing clan). Yet if it gave people a shot at victory, they were willing to jump on board.
Fast forward to the present day, and things have become a lot worse. Permanently stopping log ins to gain an advantage quickly destroys the clan world. Wearing addy to continue returning and win a fight feels like a hollow victory for the winning clan and demoralizing for the losing clan. Not allowing for a fair fight with crashing being an inevitability makes it difficult to have a true victory. Fight topics that are posted by many clans intentionally use language to degrade their opponents and try to make themselves look better - topics like these are doubly detrimental because anyone capable of free thought just realizes the clan posting it is exaggerating and not portraying an honest result. All the above examples boil down to rampant toxicity in the clan world, and there are many more examples.
The toxicity is caused by either short-sightedness or by those who don't really share the values of improving pvp clanning. For some clans, there would be desire for the clan world to grow as growth would promote both a boost to the member counts of that clan as well as provide more competition (something that is currently lacking). It would therefore make sense to lay some ground rules to promote an enjoyable experience that the winner can feel proud about. A loss is still something that can be viewed as a fun experience if the fight was a good one. Though it seems simplistic, I think many clans would be hesitant to give up many of the tactics they've become so accustomed to for a better world. On the other hand, there are some clans that wouldn't really benefit from a resurgence of the clan world, and would prefer to be kings of the ashes. These clans would be a major detriment because in order to have rules described earlier, it would greatly help to have buy-off from the majority of current clans.
Clans actively participating in a toxic environment or with situations that ruin the fun of a fight would make clanning a really daunting experience for any newcomers to the clan world (or even for those trying to return). I think the unappealing nature of the clan world is what has primarily caused decline, though there are other factors as well. I understand but don't buy the argument that the game isn't large enough to support a clan world. I'd say its not the game but the clan world that struggles to bring in new people.
The only realistic way I can see to avoid "kings of the ashes" is full-out uncapped person CWA fights. But folks dislike CWA as a venue. I would not see CWA as necessary for P2P (where fights are still occurring in the wilderness naturally) but for F2P, I'd pose a few questions to ponder - is there really enough competition actively pking in the wilderness to have unexpected and competitive PKRIs? If the answer is no and all competitive fights are planned anyway, what is the value to the wild over CWA other than that it is less constrained? Is being less constrained by rules and susceptible to crashing worth it to be in a different location?
Note: didn't comment on something that many have identified as a problem (box style fights, with longer length binds from pre-osrs and no hugging), as I've never really been involved in that world.6 hours ago, Brian said:To be a clan leader we all know you need to put a serious amount of hours into it, almost as if it was a full time job. Do any of you regret the amount of time you spent on RS during those years looking back on it now?
It was a different time - a period when I was younger in my life. I had a scholarship to my university that I got put on probation for twice due to poor grades, stemming from spending too much time on RS rather than the things that would traditionally matter. I recognized the detrimental impact that Runescape was having - which is why I needed to retire when starting up my post graduate. After retiring from Runescape, I really excelled in my post-grad work, which was the impetus for success in my career.
One would expect that after the above statement that I'd be regretting the amount of time spent looking back. I don't think I do. My Runescape experiences helped to shape who I became and I turned out alright in the end. I also think the multi-leader system helped me personally. I could always fall back on Islamia, Broski, Grug, or DP9 and know that EH was going to be ok.-
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2 minutes ago, Eric said:
Did EH have any strategy or cared about getting new people into pvp?
If so, @Vanuckle do you think something similar could be done in Tempest?
I've actually always wondered about this, if EH was unique in this regard. EH used to host tanking practice events fairly regularly where our PK leaders would demonstrate proper hugging technique and how to eat in one tick with pizzas + other food. We would take turns piling a member at random and "testing" them. Maybe a practice every 2-3 months on average.
Was this something that other clans did? -
2 hours ago, Dark Invoker said:
Do you think being involved in clanning at such deep level at (assumedly) a younger age helped you out later in life? (The reason I ask is that your clan was founded upon a particular set of values that resonated with your members and ranks - something a lot of brands are doing in the 21st century to build a community / brand image)
I think there were a number of qualities that clanning helped to develop related to critical thinking and administration. The qualities related to honor and striving to do what I feel is right is something I aim for in real life, but more challenging to achieve in certain circumstances.
Do you have any regrets from your clanning or playing days?
None related to my clanning experience other than perhaps not leaving Gladiatorz sooner when I realized the fit wasn't correct for me.Any good / funny stories of how Runescape effected your lives back then? (playing so much and being so commited to a clan was a full time gig)
I have a good one that I can't post publicly but can message you privately if you'd like. ?2 hours ago, Kiwi said:Ya man lol.
Like I said, I don't know why I remember that far back, would of been like 11 or 12 lol, apparently you left a lasting impression on my young mind haha.
Apparently you did on mine as well. That style must've been good - I'll probably be on my deathbed someday thinking "damn, that Kiwi really rocked the black armor in the mining guild."1 hour ago, MILAD said:Not really a question, but I thought I'd express a few things that I've taken with me in my life that actually taught me and shaped me in a way to become that part of my personality.
As leaders of the clan, officials and members, all playing their different roles and part to its success, I had the utmost respect for most knowing deep down that they cared for our success. In EH, being that guy with an ego was not tolerated. The collective trophies were more valued than the individual accomplishments, such as praise and awards. The respect shown from the leaders, the attitude and the power of character were displayed in a very genuine, yet strict manner which obviously were strong points of a great leader, with great symathy and understanding, but characterized to stay loyal to duty and put the organization before anyone. I do admit @3lite protecting me a lot and that showed me that sometimes, in life, you can't be square about things and that exceptions sometimes have to be made and not give up on someone.
I learned, despite the fact of how I act around people on any platform related to the game, how to be mature and handle situations with great care, dialogue and patience. I was given a chance to become a part of a community after 3 intros I made. At the time, I was angry and furious, Today, I understand that it was because the officials that declined me back then had their reasons and they were loyal to them, despite the fact that deep down inside, they knew I'd be a great addition, but principles are always a first.
What I loved and hated about EH was one of those things. Strict, yet understanding of the concept that sometimes exceptions have to be made. And at the same time, we could meet each other half way (with the officials). I admired the time and effort put into the clan, from every single official and member ever involved, in particular Islamia. He was, hands down, the most intelligent guy in the game, well spoken and had EH as his full time job it seemed at the time. I think that everyone who was led by Islamia understood that. He taught me to be patient and wait before responding. I've taken all of those attributes with me to my life. And as corny as it sounds to some of you, I think about the scenarios of what would certain members/officials of EH do now in this situation which I am placed in, regardless if it's a good one or a bad one.
In regards to the paragraph above, I joined the clan at the age of 12. I was a young, outspoken, vulgar, spastic kid, who joined the realm of the most honourable, grammar strict clan in the game. The fact that I survived 2.5 years still amazes me til this day and the fact that 3lite, Broski and Islamia didn't kick me still baffles me. I am grateful and truly appreciative for everything you guys have contributed to the clan, inside and outside. The prosperity of the clan was thanks to many great loyal members, but mostly to the leaders that guided it to its greatest success, both in the highs and the lows.
❤️
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1 hour ago, Mk 17 said:My post didn’t work but I wanted to say
yea but most fellas thought you were srsly bent tho, how bent was the average eh member?
I would say that all clans attracted a certain type of people. Despite all that, I really did enjoy the community and people we had. Intermixed with all the trawler we did, we used to have things like kareokee events, movie nights, and playing other video games together.1 hour ago, Mk 17 said:Was it true that members in EH were striked for using vulgar language and not posting on the forums with proper grammar?
Nope.1 hour ago, Mk 17 said:How diverse was EH in general? How many eastern Europeans, South American’s and African Americans did you guys have?
I have no idea on this one.1 hour ago, I Kill Batty said:Opinion on Rocky238? He talked a lot of you up and seemed to think highly of EH in general.
Rocky238 was an awesome member. He had a great ability to motivate members during fights, especially late night.1 hour ago, The End said:How did you strike a balance between allowing members to have a sense of humor and policing certain rules/guidelines? Any funny stories that you remember on the top of your head while in EH?
On our forums, pretty much anything went as long as it wasn't malicious or harmed members. Most of our rules/guidelines were designed to not be a force that projected negativity and toxicity to other clans or the community.
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24 minutes ago, Krystal said:
EH AMA hellllll yes. I am so excited to see this AMA from the folks I spent some of my most enjoyable times in RS with!! I look forward to reading through all of your responses! I apologize in advance if any of these questions have already been asked. I tried to do a quick glance through the topic to avoid repeats.
Unless otherwise specified, all of my clan-related questions are focused on when I was in EH which was 2006-2007.
@All:
1. Do you think @true is going overboard with the amount of questions he’s asking? I mean, good god, dude, save some questions for the rest of us. LOL.
@true is a champion and if he doesn't watch out, he is going to steal @His Lordship's title as clan world historian.
2. Were there any clans that stood out that you would have loved to have had as official allies? People often joked about EH & DF being buddy buddies and some even called us “Eternal Forces”. Could you have seen them as actually being a good clan as an ally, basically a clan that you felt shared similar sort of ideals as EH?
Fun vid I recorded back then of having a Deathmarch with them <3:
I would not have wanted any official allies. In that time period, I believed that allies were more of a detriment than they were a positive. There is a limited pool of clans to fight out there and not being able to engage Divine Forces would be problematic. Our relationship with DF was one of mutual convenience where we would back each other up (by ACing or stepping in to fight a strong crasher) when needed. This isn't to say that we didn't greatly value our relationship with DF. We saw them as a friendly, like-minded community. I think it is likely that DF saw the relationship in a very similar way. @Eric`` as I believe it helps to add to his question from earlier regarding Corr vs DF. See below:
3. Brian mentioned that DI had a 13-hour PKRI with EH one time. Was this the longest PKRI that we had or is there one that comes to mind that was even longer? For each of you, I would like to know what your personal best marathon was – the longest that you stayed awake continuously for a PKRI? Any struggles that you had? Crazy stories like having multiple bottles of pee piling up beside you as the night dragged on? ? [If only it was that easy for us ladies…]
Its all been so long, it has been a blur to me. We had a lot of long fights, but the most brutal ones for me tended to be DI fights. They did not want me to remain on the battlefield and in the 10-14 hour fights we had with them, it was not uncommon for me to die 100+ times. I can't remember ever leaving a pkri early - I always stayed from start to end. One time that was brutal for me was a fight we had with VR where I was sick to my stomach and was trying to lead while occasionally having to run to bathroom. I remember losing that fight and that it felt worse just because I had tried so hard to put in the effort.4. Eternal Honour stressed maintaining a positive “honorable” image in the clan community, and one major place to do this was on RSC. Conveniently, EH had many moderators on RSC that could assist in maintaining this image.. My question is, did you ever take advantage of our mod presence (I think there were like 5 of us at one point – I seriously almost made a pixel sig of our mod unit lmao) to help maintain this image? Such as requesting flame posts to be deleted (could’ve been against our own members or from opposing clans that would post things that made EH look bad) or even doing something like pushing to get people banned to eliminate them completely. If you did try to abuse them, were there any naughty EH mods that actually did delete posts for the sake of protecting EH’s image?
I think there was a perception of Zybez being bias toward certain clans (especially EH) by some of the community. VR in particular often expressed those sentiments. I don't recall instances of RSC abuse to further EH's agenda or protect EH's image, but I also was not a Zybez mod so it is possible I just was not privvy to such things occurring. I believe the large number of moderators we had was likely correlated to our strict rules involving conduct on RSC forums.❤️ My oldest RS friend. ?
I am curious to know what other names were in the running when deciding upon the clan name. Did Eternal Honour win by a landslide? Was there another name that the clan almost adopted? Who originally proposed the name?
I don't recall who proposed the name or the other names in contention, unfortunately.My memory is fuzzy. I obviously remember we were in Gladz together in 2004, but when did you depart Gladz? What clans were you in before EH? How did you find your way to EH? Also, would you agree that green cape > all? ?
I left Gladz in the Spring of 2006 and went immediately to Sacred Templars. I really enjoyed ST and followed the community to EH. On capes, when team capes were released, there was overwhelming support for the cross-style #33 cape. I was surprised that more clans didn't choose the cross out there, but the cross for me harkened back to the ST style artwork.
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33 minutes ago, Kiwi said:
Sup 3lite, I doubt you remember this and I'm surprised I do as well, but I remember we were actually friends from classic when we would mine in W5 Minning Guild lol.
The DF Kiwi is that Kiwi?! I'm pretty sure I remember you. You used to wear black armor when mining if I remember right for the fashionscape.
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45 minutes ago, Go Leafs said:
Was there a member that retired when ST closed that you wish you had in EH? If so why? (Beyond Flum/Hurt)
I missed Luke Pompey. I just got along with Luke really well while I was in ST and he had similar beginnings to me (coming from "The").24 minutes ago, true said:3lite/Trevor/Xero
What callers from opposing clans did you respect the most?
Its hard to really know how good a caller is without hearing them on audio. I remember the following as being some big names that gave us trouble or that I remember leading a lot of piles:
F1r30 - Invincible tank
Gwarrior94 - I just remember him as being a central VR caller
Rads - I remember having to pile them a lot
Peterh/Lil2 - ^ Same as above
Conditions21 - Both in EoS and VR
18 minutes ago, Adam_ said:Idk how many clans around these days were around back then, I assume these were so thoughts on these clans, and if you know anything about how they are nowadays, thoughts on that?
VR
DK
RoT
DF
EoS
No comment on these as I'm not active enough to formulate an opinion.Obviously Trevor and Xero still play so Grug/3lite - do you guys have any interest in playing the game again or even still play just not in clanning? What would it take to bring you back to the game? What would it take to get you back into clanning?
^For Trevor and Xero - if Tempest wasn't here would you still be involved in clanning? If so, what clan. If not, would you play at all?
I hadn't had interest in playing the game for a long time. It was daunting to me to relevel my character and I wasn't willing to commit to the investment. Over the past few months, I've been playing a bit (got 85 slayer today), which I think was spurred by being involved in the EH Discord. To get back to clanning, it would require me working out internal struggles with what I would be after in a clan and if I could commit to it.I think someone else already asked what the most NH thing you guys did was - so what was the most NH thing proposed that you guys ended up not going through with?
EH leadership were offered, and declined to accept, spy accounts for VR forums. Because it was so long ago, I do not remember the exact details, but I told VR leadership what we were offered and suggested the member change their forum password.What's the worst thing you guys had to remove a member for - in both senses of the word worst. Aka someone you didn't feel should be removed but had to due to clan rules - and someone who REALLY deserved to be removed because they did something terrible.
One member who did not deserve to be removed (in my opinion) but had to be due to clan rules was Plavljanic. Plavljanic joined EH and, at some point early in its history, gave his account to a different former ST/EH member, Pure Fear 3 (Jon). Jon played on Plavljanic for several years without informing leadership. When Islamia found out, he removed Jon from the clan.
On a member who needed to be removed, there was a member we had named Devil1081. I really liked Devil as a person, but he was a loose cannon. He really had a hard time avoiding our rules on Zybez flaming and generally caused a ruckus in the community. Devil was kicked/left/returned to EH a few times before his chances in the clan were exhausted.Thoughts on the current state of PvP in general in RS and the clanning community? Including f2p/p2p/cwa/etc
No comment as I am too far on the periphery to make an educated assessment.On another game I played a long time ago a dutch kid named Stefan opened Eternal Honour and claimed he was part of the original clan, though I don't think he claimed he was an official or anything. To my knowledge there was no others in the clan claiming to be EH, though some people from 'real' rs clans like Brutality and other clans did end up in the clan, even if only briefly. Do you know who this Stefan guy may be / if he was actual EH, or did he just steal your name and make up a bunch of lies?
It is possible, though I don't remember any Stefans through my time in EH. Our most recognizable Dutch member was Dubbel Drank (RL name: Jorrit), so if I ever get into contact with Jorrit again, I can ask if he knew a Stefan.If Jagex reached out to you today and said we want you to reopen - tell us what needs to happen. What would you tell them? Assuming other concerns were non existent (jobs/other irl stuff keeping you busy/being in other clans like Tempest)?
And if that happened and you reopened, what leadership team would you want and what people would you want in the clan?
Considering the hypothetical scenario here, I think the most integral things to F2P success that Jagex could change are having binds be the maximum entanglement spell in F2P and allowing hugging.
I would want to retain as much of the leadership team/members as I had in EH, despite having a lot of respect for folks who were in other clans, I respected the leaders from EH and they worked to build a stable community. I know that is a bit of a lame answer, but it is an honest one.What is one clan you never got to be a part of that you wish you had?
In my time before EH, when I was in Gladz, I was a clan friend to The Devilz clan. I made friendships from that clan that still continue to this day and, as shortlived as that clan was, I wish I played a greater part in it. After being in EH, I never really desired to be in a clan, though I did pk for awhile with a small but close-knit group of friends (shout out to Lonecorp, Poser, Durrette, Venom, LittleJr, Firestar, and Sephiroth).
Did you ever consider leaving EH for another clan? If so why, and what clan?
Never.What clan did you have the most respect for? Least respect?
The thing that is tough about this question is that my opinion of clans certainly varied through time and that there were clans that I simultaneously respected for some attributes and did not respect for others. Throughout time I most respected TT, RSD, and DF. I least respected RoT, NI, and DK (those that crashed).What clan was the most overrated in your opinion? This doesn't have to be just from the time EH was open if you've been around ages and seen a lot of clans obviously
I thought that Shadow Elves were quite overrated. They were quite organized and occasionally capable of pulling around 70 people, but I never really saw them make the jump to where they could be consistently competitive with the major clans. They were very vocal in the community and I think they got caught in a no-man's land of being the best of the mid-sized clans but being unable to compete with the large clans.Is there any funny / interesting stories that never really hit the public about things that happened in the clan that you remember? Or ones that have been lost through time.
From an old topic:
As with many clans, we had a rank for new members called “Future Knights” which had a limited capacity to see forums, but could attend all events. One day I logged into the forums and noticed that one of our members had posted a picture of his bare ass with the words “Hello Future Knights” written in sharpie to the Future Knight forums. I think it was one of the only times I heard Islamia curse, and I vividly remember me telling him about it and him saying “3lite...what the fuck.” Islamia and I had a hard time trying to figure out what to do about the situation because we hadn’t encountered anything like it before and we were concerned about violating the forum’s terms of service. We hid the post, told the guy not to do it again, gave him a short suspension, and all was fine. The member remained a good member until EH closed.Did/do you guys enjoy any content ingame other than PvP?
Lots of community events. Fishing for whatever reason was a big one for us (hence the trawler in the AMA picture). We also played lots of non-RS games together (shout out to EH DoTA unit).Do you prefer F2p or P2p? Why? Thoughts on the one you don't prefer ?
For large scale clan fights, I prefer F2P because P2P is too messy and there is too much potential to one item. Large scale fights are more about dominance and fun than earning money, so its all good that an F2P set is only ~200k.
For small scale, I prefer P2P because there is less KO power for a small F2P unit and also a small P2P unit can make money in game.Who are 5 people you wish could be part of this AMA but aren't here? Going to guess Islamia will be a common answer for most of you
True first started talking to me about an AMA in ~August. Since then, I've been trying really hard to find Islamia and Broski. Both would have great perspectives to add, but I have been unable to track down. Nullusion would have also been a really interesting person to have involved in this AMA. Darkpaladin9 would have been interesting, and we just found him a few days ago. Lastly, I think Tristan138 would have been a really good addition as an important member in the community and one of our officers.What are some things during your time in EH leadership that really made you wish you weren't abiding by a code of honour - or made you consider even breaking said code?
Dragging (for reasons discussed earlier) is the only instance I can think of.-
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1 hour ago, Secret Agent said:
When I was in EH the most frustrating thing was the "no dragging rule" that clans exploited when they fought us -- how did this rule come to be and what were your thoughts about it?
The no dragging rule was a throw back from days gone by. Dragging was seen as dishonorable by our predecessor, ST, and previously by many other clans. The no dragging rule particularly pitted the ideas of strategy against the ideals upon which we were founded. We realized that if we did not adapt, we would be taken advantage of and that changing our stance on dragging was necessary to be competitive. As the head tactical strategist, I was one of the first leaders to be ok with dragging but many of our leadership team (particularly Broski) were reluctant to change our stance. Broski eventually agreed that we must adapt or fail, but I think that his continued support of "anti-dragging" was a testament to how highly he valued doing what he felt was the right thing.Who was EH best caller and why was it not Milad?
As I'd mentioned earlier, I believe S17 was our most consistent caller but that we had many good callers throughout our history.
Special shout out to X Zach 02, Nullusion, Xero, Uber N00blet, Rvcwrestler, and J50. -
1 hour ago, 5554447 said:
3lite:
I distinctly remember listening in on the discussion between you and Islamia about closing EH. I remember feeling like I got punched in the gut. At the time, I felt it was a selfish decision on your part to close down the clan instead of attempting to bring in new leadership. From my perspective, there were enough people with a similar vision and ideals that could have carried on the legacy you left. However, looking back on it, now 10 years removed and with a little more life experience, I can understand why you made the decision. My question is, do you have any regrets about the decision to close EH, and do you still feel like you made the correct choice?
Numbers
Hey Kent!
You were not alone in feeling the way that you did about EH's closing. A lot of members didn't understand why we made the decision that we did and felt that the call we made was incorrect. It doubly angered members when (in the creation of Vengeance), Broski, Islamia, Grug, and I insisted that the clan not be named "Eternal Honour." We had candidates with potential to fulfill the head leadership positions, but they just weren't ready yet.
The decision definitely wasn't an easy one and contrary to what many might think, I actually think the easiest decision would have been allowing EH to keep going and pass off leadership when we were unsure of the direction the clan might take. Doing so might allow EH to remain open for a longer period, but could tarnish our legacy, remembrance of the clan as relevant in the clan world, and the ideals that the clan stood for. Also, if we did not believe EH could be successful in that regard, it would still be doing a disservice to EH as the clan would eventually disband. With EH closing when it did, most old members look back with pride and fond memories of their time in EH, which might be a different scenario if a different decision had been made.
The big sacrifice to closing is that the community dispersed with some members now being difficult to contact. I'm grateful that we've been able to reconnect with so many people in the EH discord and that the chat remains incredibly active to this day.
I feel your pain and wish I had something to go back to with EH in this day and age. With all that pain, I stand by the decision to close EH and believe it was the correct choice.
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1 hour ago, Billy said:
was pt37 as weird in 2006 as he was in like 2012
Pt37's time in EH was so early on and so short that I honestly don't remember him very well.1 hour ago, Brian said:
I don't recall ever having a conventional spy in EH, but we had full forum access. In those days it was as simple as scouting the mass point once you knew the time/loc and we'd just follow you. All clans were extremely naive back then.
Fair enough, I remember finding who's account the spy was on at some point by checking IPs on Zybez versus our forums. My memory is a bit hazy so I could be incorrect on this, but I think you guys had access to Green Viking's account?1 hour ago, Juri said:How many of your memberbase was really AEST or PST as you always seemed to have a really big "late night" unit?
We had a good core of Aussie members (approximately 10) but other than that were primarily EST-based. I think we had two advantages to staying in fights longer. Our memberbase was probably slightly older than clans like VR or DF and I think we had fewer GMT members than most clans.DO you remember Broski having late AEST pk trips around 1pm GMT-ish? We (Estonian country clan) used to fight you a lot at those during our school breaks when people were at home?
We frequently had late night pk trips to fight clans like CL, especially in the early days (~2007).Do you think that you could have moved on after the 2009 with a decent leadership chance or was the closure imminent still?
If the retirement of Islamia, Broski, Grug, and I was more staggered to allow for a better transition of leadership and we had leadership candidates that we had mentored/deemed sufficient for the job, I do not believe EH would have closed.1 hour ago, Lander said:Thank you for this EH legends. Did EH have any rivarlies? If so which one was the biggest one and why?
Most folks in EH would consider our biggest rivalry to have been with Violent Resolution. EH and VR were created around the same time and were competing with each other throughout the entire time EH was alive. We generally had a pretty antagonistic relationship, other than the very first few months of creation, where we were both struggling against DI.
Otherwise, I would consider us to have rivalries with the following:
Corruption (usually, but rarely fought)
Damage Inc (usually, but one sided power-wise for the first several months/year)
Echo of Silence (occasionally, particularly when EoS was highly active and trying to pick fights, Zybez flaming from EoS seemed to get to many of our members moreso than other clans)
We were generally on good terms with TT, RSD, and DF.1 hour ago, Flukejiver said:Which clan in your opinion was the most honorable (other than EH) and least honorable?
Excluding clans that would embrace a "no honor" designation during the time period such as RoT and NI:
Most honorable: TT and RSD as I believed both to be positive and honorable forces in the clan world. Was very surprised to see TT's AMA and their deal with NI, but still believe they were an honorable clan worthy of respect.
Least honorable: VR - but they owned who they were and I actually respected that. -
2 hours ago, Dickus said:
Thinking back on all of it, which moments would you point to as the high and low points of the clan?
For me personally, I had a period of inactivity in 2008 where I was a leader, but for several months, I wasn't really following along with what the clan was doing. When I returned, I saw EH in the lowest state that it had ever been. The clan was fighting SE and Col rather than the more established clans, which were strong clans in their own right, but generally had smaller pulls. It was really disheartening coming back to that, but we quickly rebuilt and got out of the slump we were in.
There were too many high points for me to pick just one. As mentioned earlier, I think the first time we beat DI was a big moment for the clan.1 hour ago, Pietru said:Worst loss that EH had in your opinions?
8-10 hour fight with DI where RoT crashed and turned the tide of the fight.
1 hour ago, Flukejiver said:Whats the most NH thing you've ever done?
In my very early clanning days, I was a level 78 in Gladiatorz. In my first official miniwar, I pked a set of full rune, which was approximately worth my bank. I looted it and logged out to pretend like I DCed.
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2 hours ago, true said:
Who are some EH members that you think were instrumental to the clan's success that never served as officials?
I think the normal members of the clan don't often get enough love on these topics. Here are some of the many that I'd like to shout out to:
Mr Mooij: Perhaps the most under the radar of the old EH members. This guy was incredibly loyal, always binding, and was with EH from its start to near its end.
Rocky238: An awesome motivator who used to wake up at 5 am to attend fights with us.
Alex Osu: Our clan videographer and a really passionate member; though he needs to train up in Runescape like he does irl.
Cackerot, XXXjay666, and Archerpower0: Leaders of the snipe unit and great tanks.
S2 Guh S2, Armorhelmet3, Decceiver: Leaders of our Brazilian unit.
What kind of drama did EH have behind the scenes?
I don't really remember any major drama-causing events.
What mid-size/smaller clans did you respect the most and felt carried similar values to EH?
EH had a lot of respect for many of the country clans - in particular TRWF, RDC, MMA, and LF. However, they were all fairly larger sized clans. We maintained a good relationship with Gladz and "The" during later periods, though I would consider them to be very different clans to EH. Many of our miniwar, training, or matched option fights were with the aforementioned clans.
At the time, I felt the clan with the most similar values to EH was probably TT or RSD.
What are your thoughts on WG and His Lordship?
I don't know His Lordship well, so I can't comment. I used to view him as a bit of a clan world historian, so I see him as a potentially valuable source of knowledge for the old days (future AMA?).1 hour ago, J0ey said:would you ever consider reopening eh
I don't think so. I'm an old family man now with a demanding job. I couldn't realistically dedicate the time necessary to building and running a successful clan without major detriment to my real life obligations.1 hour ago, true said:Who is the most non-EH EH member of all time?
This one is a challenge. Going to go with Oergg. I don't know the guy at all or anything about his personality, all I know is that he made a spreadsheet to track magic experience gained during fights to see who was binding. That is a pretty dang EH thing to do.1 hour ago, true said:Is there anything you wish EH achieved that it did not?
I have no regrets on EH's achievements and feel we accomplished everything we had hoped throughout our history. I believe we had a positive impact on the clan world with our time in the sun.
What are some things you learned from clanning that apply to your daily life today?
I began clanning when I was 15 years old and became a leader of EH when I was approximately 17. It is hard for me to disentangle what I learned in those formative years with the normal development process, but I do believe clanning had an impact on who I became as a person today. Here are a few random things:
1.) One of my primary roles in EH was as a strategist, analyzing different potential scenarios and outcomes. My real life job largely involves simulation modeling of fish and wildlife management scenarios.
2.) I lead a team in real life of approximately 45 staff members. In EH, I learned that the individuals on your team can be best suited to tasks that interest them. Allowing individuals to work on those tasks gives them a sense of fulfillment and helps to move the task that needs to be done forward.
What is your thoughts on the United Nations of Clans? Did it ever make a difference?
I remember that it was a thing but don't remember any effective, clan world defining decisions coming from it. I think it'd be more relevant (but also more unrealistic and probably impossible) in the current clan world. A decade ago, there wasn't great inter-clan incentives to abide by rules that create a better clan community. In the current period, a clan world that has a few rules that make the game more enjoyable to everyone could foster growth of the clan world and improve recruitment prospects for everyone.
Link us an EH YouTube video that you think we'll like!
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1 hour ago, true said:
What clan leaders did you respect the most? The least?
Did you read Brian's AMA? If so, any thoughts?
This is a really tough question because there are lots of different ways in which an individual can garner respect. Presuming this question is about non-EH leaders given the follow up.
If I had to pick three that I respected highly:
1.) Flummbullen - I left Gladz, which I felt had a great community, because I didn't really agree with the direction of the clan and I felt that the leadership team was weak/absent. Flumm led ST with integrity and vision.
2.) Icedrop - I saw Icedrop as a very intelligent tactical leader.
3.) Nodari - Violent Resolution attracted a group of people that was very different to Eternal Honour. Whether it was true or not, I saw Nodari as a community leader for VR and I think that is a job that I would have failed miserably at.
Picking three that I did not respect is more challenging. I do believe that successful clans require leaders that garner respect that the members can rally behind. For that reason, by the nature of the top clans being successful, every major clan leader deserve respect in some way. I can find reasons to respect clans that were as different in values to EH such as RoT and NI.
I read through Brian's AMA. While I don't think that many in EH would have considered DI to be EH's biggest rival, DI was the clan for EH to fight that got me most motivated personally. I believe Brian's comments regarding EH were largely accurate. My opinion of Brian is a strange one - I certainly did not hold DI in high regards 10 years ago but I no longer hold any grudges from that period. 10 years ago, I did not know Brian on a personal level. I knew him as the figurehead of a clan that I did not like. Seeing Brian's AMA, coupled with his help on the clan leader's perspective post I made a few months back and what others have told me about him, has given me a more personal perspective on who he is as an individual. I believe it takes a lot of courage to do the things he has done in the AMA and by opening old DI leadership forums. There is also no denying that DI was a massively successful clan over a substantial period of Runescape's history, which takes a strong leader. I think if I got to know him, I'd respect who he was as a person and a leader.1 hour ago, true said:Thoughts on @MILAD ❤️
I always had a soft spot for Milad. He was very young when he first joined EH. His passion for the clan got him into lots of trouble, and he was always the first to lash back at EoS or VR on Zybez. I think throughout EH, we really saw his growth and movement from a pain in the butt for the leadership team to a caller and key motivator in the clan.
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1 hour ago, Vanzant said:
Hello lads
Hi there.1 hour ago, Ssj said:Most memorable EH fight?
Corruption 2009, first DI win, several times defeating VR when considered the underdog
Worst EH official?
The worst official that EH ever had in my opinion was Striker 36 (founding PK leader).Biggest regret in EH?
1.) As mentioned earlier, doing a better job of showing folks like S17, Xero, Uber N00blet, and Jonezy50 that I valued their opinions and roles as PK leaders. I should have let them know that I heard them.
2.) At times, my fight planning tactics were too safe. Broski used to remind me that one doesn't become the best unless they're willing to throw punches at the big dogs.
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1 hour ago, Eric`` said:
What was the most defining moment of eh?
I believe the most defining moment of EH was defeating Damage Inc for the first time. Damage Inc had a spy in Eternal Honour and hit us on almost all of our PK trips as the clan was just beginning. In a situation like that, many clans falter and close, but EH did not. Each time DI hit us, we became stronger and more motivated to defeat them. It took a lot of losses to get there, but eventually we got a win and our beginnings helped us for several years to be motivated to fight DI.
1 hour ago, Flukejiver said:What were the biggest strengths/weakness of EH has a whole?
Strengths:
- A strong core group of members that remained through thick and thin.
- I had pride in the other members of the leadership team; they were intelligent and generally trying to do the "just" thing. To me, this was a big motivator and difference from other clans I had experienced.
- We were a competitive force in our time.
- We had a core of ~10 Aussies that helped keep up strong through the late fights and were great motivators when everyone else was getting sleepy (Rocky, Reg, Smars, etc.)
Weaknesses:
- Being motivated by "honor" and retribution for those who had wronged us often led to a mentality where the goal was "be better than Violent Resolution" or "be better than Damage Inc." There were few periods where the goal was "be #1", and I believe that is a flaw that made us poorly motivated to defeat The Titans and (sometimes) Divine Forces.
58 minutes ago, true said:What were your thoughts on Nullusion opening a clan (Vengeance) as EH closed? Did you keep up with it? Did you think it would succeed?
Do you keep up with his current clan, Deathrow? If so, what do you think about DR as a clan and the success he's led them to in P2P?
How would you compare current day Null to the one that was in EH?
Keeping in mind that the leadership team was looking to potentially pass on the torch, but we opted for closing, we felt that EH was unlikely to be as successful (in terms of values and strength) as we wanted it to be under a different leadership team. I think Broski, Islamia, Grug, and I all hoped that Vengeance would be successful and we endorsed EH members joining that clan. You may wonder why, if we all endorsed VG, to not just allow EH to continue under the VG leadership? We had discussed that at the time of EH's closure, but (perhaps selfishly), we wanted Eternal Honour's name to be associated with the achievements accomplished by the clan that had closed. I did not keep up with VG closely as I had left the game prior to the clan's formation.
I lurk on Deathrow forums, but can't comment on DR extensively as I am not associated with the clan. I think it looks like a fun group of highly skilled P2Pers.
Nullusion in EH was thoughtful, strategically minded, and a dedicated leader. I personally saw him as my most likely successor and thought that VG would have the greatest chance of success with him at the helm, though perhaps jointly with some of the former EH council/commanders. I'm not in a good place to comment on how he leads DR, but I still see him as dedicated clanner and a good friend. -
52 minutes ago, Flukejiver said:
If you had to join a current clan, who would it be and why?
I don't plan on joining any clans in OSRS for the time being and its likely that if I were interested in clans, I'd do a better job of shopping around and getting to know the clan world.
If I decided that I was most interested in small scale, P2P combat, I would likely go to Deathrow. This is primarily due to my connection with Nullusion and because he is someone who I had a lot of respect for working alongside in EH.
If I were interested in F2P combat, I would likely consider Tempest, as many of my old friends are here and I support the goals/vision of the clan. However, the F2P consideration is more challenging because I believe that (even after 10 years) it would be difficult for me to be serious or involved in large scale, long fights and truly dedicate myself to it. As silly as it is, I still consider myself EH and would have trouble motivating myself for a different venture. -
27 minutes ago, Flukejiver said:
@ everyone
What's your opinion on the current clan world?
I don't feel like I can make an accurate assessment as an outsider looking in.
26 minutes ago, Eric`` said:Why did you side with df over cor in the original clusters
Eternal Honour was a clan that was really motivated by our values. Whether correct or incorrect, we saw DF as a positive force that had ideals that were more similar to our own than Corruption.
26 minutes ago, Eric`` said:Who is e undisputed goat of eh callers
I believe that this was a metric that fluctuated through time and even fight to fight. If I had to pick one, I believe S17 was our best caller.
26 minutes ago, Eric said:That clan was full of nice people.
Do you think there is place for honour / No Honour in the current clan scene?
Trying to take a shot at this with the acknowledgement that I am not involved in the current clan world and may be off-base. I don't think there is a place for honor as there was in 2006-2010 in the current clan world without major changes to thought processes or how the clan world works. Honor rules, if agreed to by the fight participants, can work to make the clan world a more enjoyable place for everyone. However, it requires willing participants and in the current structure of the clan world, crashing and no honor activities are the norm. Trying to abide by honor rules severely handicaps a clan if the other clan will not abide. Remember, everyone liked Ned Stark, but honor and trying to play by the rules got Ned's head cut off.
I believe honor could be achieved where it can be forced in CWA (stops crashing, defines a clear winner, can set rules, penalizes wearing addy), but planned PKRIs with an uncapped number of people appear to be relatively unpopular with the current scene.26 minutes ago, Eric`` said:Hardest decision outside of the one to close you all ever had to make?
In 2006, there was an honor rule that stipulated fights as occurring between the two sets of rocks near Members Gate. Going past these points was called "dragging" and was frowned upon. However, as time passed, EH became the last clan to enforce a "no-dragging" rule. Clans were beginning to take advantage of this and it was becoming apparent that, in this case, honor was a weakness. We made the choice to drop our "no-dragging" morals to adapt to the changing clan world and be more competitive with our contemporaries.
25 minutes ago, Eric`` said:Least favorite clan to fight
From the perspective of who I didn't like fighting in battle: Corruption
From the perspective of who I didn't like planning fights with: The Titans (TT was a clan that I felt had the most similar values to our own, they gave us great fights and were always a challenge. It was hard to get our members motivated to fight TT because everyone liked them, which made my job hard). -
20 minutes ago, true said:
for 3lite and Grug:
How do you think EH would have been if Trevor was given leader as opposed to closing?
Trevor was a great leader, but Eternal Honour's structure was such that we would have preferred multiple individuals leading. Islamia, Grug, and I long forsaw the closure of EH (back around March 2009 was when we started planning with closure not until August). For succession planning we had several individuals that we were trying to mentor to fulfill our roles. From a strategic perspective, we were looking to Nullusion and S17 to succeed me. However, we were most concerned about finding a replacement for Islamia/Broski and unsure if we had the right fit for the job coming up among the ranks to ensure our clan direction did not stray from the morals and ideals upon which we were founded.
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3 minutes ago, true said:
What is your all-time favorite EH victory?
If I had to pick a single victory, I would choose EH vs. Corr in March 2009. Both clans pulled about 100 people and we had been on a losing streak versus Corr.
What was the biggest loss in EH's history?The loss that hit me the hardest was a time that we were fighting DI. About 8-10 hours into the fight (~midnight), we had been winning for a few hours and we felt like the end was near. Reign of Terror hit us with around 180 options, AC were overrun, DI had a chance to regroup, and we were fighting DI and RoT. We lost shortly after that and it felt like we should have had a win.
What made Islamia a great leader?
Islamia's greatest strengths were his ability to listen, consider the options, and to avoid personal bias to make a fair judgement. Islamia exemplified a just individual to me.
What were your personal biggest strengths/weaknesses?
My biggest strengths and weaknesses went hand in hand. For tactical aspects, I was very rational, meticulous, and calculated with planning, which allowed me to excel in the role. I used to run through many scenarios and try to implement better ways to do things. This calculated approach was seen as rigid and cold by many members and particularly by some of EH's PK leaders. I wish I had done more to let PK leaders know that I valued them and their opinions at the time, because I think that some folks felt that I didn't think highly of them, which wasn't the case.
What are the biggest strengths and weakness of everyone else you're doing this AMA with?
Grug - Strength: was a lighthearted leader who could ease the mood on serious discussions, but also contribute valuable advice and be serious when necessary. Weakness: Periodic inactivity.
S17 - Strength: one of our best callers with a real desire to see improvement in EH. Weakness: Swayed by a vocal minority of members at times rather than trusting in his own judgement.
Xero - Strength: a motivating and dedicated force in the clan; good pk leader. Weakness: Care/pride for the clan could lead to an emotional response and put EH in a poor battle decision.
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About Eternal Honour:
Eternal Honour was formed following the closure of Sacred Templars in August of 2006 by Broski, Lord Grug, Ommoht, Pt37, and approximately 70 starting members. The members jointly voted on the name for the clan, which we felt embodied our goals, morals, and what we wanted to achieve in the clan community. Initial ranks (other than head leaders) were chosen by member voting and we quickly gained a lot of attention within the clan world. Eternal Honour grew quickly, prompting us to close recruitment on several occasions, and was known for 80%+ attendance rates in the early days. With just over 100 members, we pulled our first 300 option PK trip against Dark Slayers.
Over the years, Eternal Honour had its ups and downs. There were periods where the clan was performing well, contending for rank 1, and periods where EH was in a slump, dropping to around rank 7. It was an exciting time to be in the clan world, where competition was rampant and fights were large.
As a clan, we placed a high value on honor and the integrity of the clan world. We were the last major clan to cave on the "anti-dragging" rules of 2006 that set the boundaries of fights between the Member's Gate rocks. Unfortunately, we won't have any juicy stories on spying, as that is not something we ever took part in. We were always good for an AC, no matter who was involved in the fight and we had strict rules against our members on flaming on RSC (we had to warn, temporarily ban, or kick several members for this).
Another thing to note is that while Eternal Honour's main focus was on pking/warring, we held an unusually high number of community events for a pking clan. There was a strong emphasis on community with there generally being multiple non-pking events each week. Violent Resolution liked to use the quip "Go back to the fishing trawler" on us during battles, which we enjoyed thoroughly and embraced as an internal slogan/joke.
Eternal Honour's leadership structure differed from many other clans, with there generally being a three leader "triumvirate", though there were occasional periods throughout the clan when there were four or two leaders. Head leaders were generally focused on a particular area of expertise. 3lite led tactical planning and on the battlefield. Broski led clan direction, moral code, and grand vision. Islamia (and Darkpaladin9, Islamia's predecessor) led community efforts and internal clan administration. Lord Grug was an exception as he dabbled in all areas, helped to fill in if there were periods of inactivity with other leaders, and helped to discuss important decisions.
EH closed in the fall of 2009 following a joint decision from the head leadership team as 3lite was admitted to post-graduate studies, Islamia was admitted to medical school, Broski was retired, and Lord Grug's activity had decreased. I have a lot of fond memories from those times and couldn't have asked for a better set of members to play alongside.
3lite:
Hello everyone, my Runescape ingame name was 3lite. I joined EH as a founding member and Commander (PK leader) in 2006. In 2007, I was promoted to Holy Commander (Warlord) and then later that year to Grand Officer (Head Leader). I remained a Grand Officer until closure in 2009, though I did have a period of inactivity in 2008. The head leadership team in EH worked well because the leaders complimented each other's strengths and weaknesses. My strength and role was primarily as a tactician, battlefield leader, and fight planner. I felt fortunate to lead alongside Broski, Islamia, Lord Grug, Ommoht, and DarkPaladin9, all of whom were intelligent leaders that brought something to the table. I also feel fortunate to have been a part of a clan that I felt was a really positive force in the game and that I was able to share so many good moments with a diverse group of members.
After EH closed, I was inactive for a lengthy period in Runescape and have only returned recently. I'm looking forward to this AMA and will do my best to answer any questions folks might have from a time very long ago.
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Eternal Honour's AMA (3lite, Grug, Slaughter17, Xero)
in AMA Archive
Posted
EH and DF had a fairly amicable relationship throughout most of our history, which I would attribute to community values that were more aligned than many clans. Near the end of EH's time in 2009, that relationship broke down a little bit and there was rivalry between us (though I would not say it was on the same level as EH-VR). As a part of that rivalry, both clans tried to fuel motivation against each other. Throughout the vast majority of EH's time, we saw DF as a positive force and had a great respect for the clan.
Really appreciate the time spent on a detailed response and insights. Respect for the honesty and courage to tell it as you remembered it.