Divine Forces AMA - Bountyhuntur & Homedawg90

[Blue Wall 40]

4 hours ago, true said:

@Bunty

 

Could you talk about your time in Awaken?

Fun fact, when DF took #1 for the first time General Shop pm'd Bunty telling him he had taught him everything he had known ?

[@True 2k8 3,215]

Thoughts on Shinobi as Leader? What is his legacy in DF?

[Homedawg 47]

2 hours ago, true said:

@Homedawg

 

Could you tell us about you leaving DF and joining RSD in 2010? Why did you leave, how was RSD etc.

I think I was mad because I was one of the older players that that were being dropped during an inactive sweep. It bothered me for a while but I only lasted as an applicant for 2 weeks or so before giving that up.  

51 minutes ago, NeverSober said:

@Homedawg do you regularly wear a gold chain

Only for your mom.

17 minutes ago, true said:

Thoughts on Shinobi as Leader? What is his legacy in DF?

From what I remember he was quiet and a behind the scenes type of guy. He didn't use a mic which I thought was different for DF. I will remember him a leader who did well with his time as leader just by maintaining the status quo. 

[Bunty 47]

23 hours ago, david said:

Favorite crashwar and why?

Dream lineup?

If you had the chance to change something you did that you regret back when you were ranked what would you change?

1. Crash wars started I think when Lego took over. And thank god for that, they would have driven me bonkers lol.

 

2. There is another question later on about dream lineup of people not from DF, so for this one I'll do DF:

Council: Lego, Blue Wall, Xshinobizx, IMK, Rene, Murray

Warlord: Flinstoneman, Homedawg, Peterh, Veseble

FA Manager: Dark Knighty

 

3. There is an image floating around out there somewhere of me ripping into DF in members forums listing a bunch of things that pissed me off lol. I could be pretty harsh sometimes, and that was an example of one. Other than that I wish I would have spent more time having conversations with people who broke rules rather than just giving them the boot. A lot of things can be resolved with a simple conversation.

 

23 hours ago, true said:

For both:

 

Who is someone that should have reached a higher rank, but did not (for whatever reason)

I think maybe Beevis. I had some good conversations with him back in the day, and despite his goofy sense of humor he had a good head on his shoulders. He made it to the justice rank, he probably should have been council.

 

22 hours ago, Dark Knighty said:

To both of you.

 

Who is your least favourite leader in DF history? and why is it @true?

I think we ALL have an understanding that it is @true and why it is true ?but no seriously it was Peterh, simply because of the way he left.

 

22 hours ago, true said:

If you had to construct a leadership (with you as leader) with officials from other clans (never were DF etc.), who would it consist of?

Council: Amosstorm, Broski, Kidefence, Robtokill, Mr Nickos

Warlord: Cera, Radicalsurfu, Ghjjf, Avster

 

22 hours ago, true said:

What do you feel like were the biggest mistakes DF made as a clan?

I think we beefed too much with too many clans, causing unnecessary shit like crash wars. Obviously that was not specifically a DF thing, but it was definitely something I noticed. Also sometimes DF could be too selfish, I remember reading Bishinmo talking about why he hated DF so much and actually remembering that specific event happening. We had tendencies to irk people I guess, even allies back in the day (we pissed of Valor a couple of times). I think maybe long term that led to a lot of problems that DF experienced well after my time.

 

22 hours ago, Josh said:

I never really remembered an enjoyable fight against DF, I always got the sense that it was 'Win at any cost' and DF were involved with some of the longest fights ever in Runescape (multiple 12h+; including 24h). That's not just from one specific era, but it probably started somewhere in 07 or late 06 and continued right through to 2012 or whenever Jagex thought EOC would be a good idea (maybe later, I quit then).  That's not a dig against DF, all clans did it at some point but I just remember DF doing it more than others. 

 

Was there ever a time either of you wanted to call off a fight but someone else wanted to keep going even when you felt it was just a waste of time? If so, who was that person?

 

I also remember in 07ish (?) You guys tried to do more p2p and had a p2p leader etc (can't remember the name). Why do you think that fell flat, and what would you have done differently? (Either a new approach to p2p, or just forget it all together?).

 

Anyway, credit where credit's due - You guys did a good job with recruiting and maintaining a large playerbase for a long period of time. Thanks for the memories. 

Yeah I feel you, I agree on the long fights. DF had a "fight to the bitter end" mentality and some fights got way out of control. I never experienced a 12 hour+ one I don't think, but they were definitely getting to that point with 8-9 hours before we'd call it quits or the other clan did. The issue is a lot of DF members actually liked those long fights, but it was one of many reasons I ultimately threw in the towel. I liked the days of wars, and short pk run ins were fun (like 1.5-2 hours) but they got way out of control for me and I started not enjoying it anymore. I don't have a specific fight in mind, as they all started to get bland for me, but a lot our members liked them so we kept going.

 

We had a P2P Leader in 06 and tried to do more P2P, but we were too F2P focused at that point that very few members took it seriously. It was something Death liked, we were mage bank pking in like 05 late at night and he wanted to have more of a hand on that side. 

 

21 hours ago, Eric`` said:

What do you hope people remember about your legacy(s)?

My legacy isn't really something I care about. Mostly I think it is the DF members that deserve the credit for whatever my legacy is. They showed up time and time again when I needed them.

 

18 hours ago, BleakTerror said:

who let @true join DF ?‍♂️

Idk huge mistake though. 

 

18 hours ago, Out said:

What do you think of the nickname for DF: gayboys?

 

Not much. I know they at least used to have a lot of gay guys in there, and I think they embrace it lol.

 

14 hours ago, Blue Wall said:

@Bunty what were your thoughts on DS and what was DF's approach during your time as leader/high council on how to go about handling them in terms of giving them fights vs trying to focus on other clans and avoid them?  If they had stayed open and kept going do you think DF would have been the best clan to challenge for their spot first, or would another clan like Corr have been more likely, or DI resurging to take back the top spot?

 

Also, what were your thoughts on my being able to recruit Avster and you never getting him to join DF ?

 

@Homedawg I know a lot of people had differing opinions on the role of head warlord over the years.  Being one that held the rank, what did you see your role as during your time with it?

Well the fact of the matter is when it came to DS the only clan that was even close to their level at the time was DI. We liked to fight them now and then to challenge ourselves, and they were always cool about it, but we had a long ways to go before we got to the point of overthrowing them. I had a lot of faith in DF's ability and I absolutely think we could have gotten there, so outside of DI already being their #1 challenger I like to think we could have gotten it done at some point, but we would have had to do some heavy recruiting. I definitely wanted to be the one to take down DS I'll tell you that much lol.

 

13 hours ago, Eric`` said:

Over the clan world eras, Df has always been able to change and adapt and stay relevant, why is this? Literally every other clan has been defeated by jagex with one update or major change to the game, but not DF. What's the secret?

I think that started with Death honestly. The guy had a consistent drive to just never give up and always take a challenge head on, and he was teaching everyone how to get an edge on opponents from day one, whether that was through recruitment, fight tactics, or building a solid culture of competitive people. I know I haven't been in many of your guys' clans before, so I can only speak from my previous experiences before DF, but no other clan I had been in was even close to resembling what DF was. It was a huge culture shock to me when I joined. When he built that foundation we then had patterns to follow for continued success. I definitely learned some things from him.

 

That's my theory anyways.

 

11 hours ago, Eric`` said:

In the prime of CoR vs. DF, who from cor did you guys hate/dislike the most?

Well since I was Council at the time I hated Robtokill because I was in a lot of those conversations with him or heard the aftermath of those conversations lol. That being said I started to gain more respect for him down the road.

 

11 hours ago, Flukejiver said:

@Bunty @Homedawg

 

If you started a clan, out of all of the players throughout the clanning world, who would be your all-star official team consist of? Leaders, warlord, council, etc....

I kind of did this version of strictly DF and then strictly outsiders a few quotes up, so mash them together I guess lol.

 

10 hours ago, Adam_ said:

If you were to bring back one clan from the dead in all it's former glory today what clan would it be, with what leadership team, and why?

 

If you were to remove the existence of a clan from the history of the OSRS clanning community (never opens, doesn't effect other things, members end up staying in their previous clans/going to their next clans/joining other clans/whatever) what clan and why?

 

Thoughts on current clans at least the ones you know about?
Tempest

DF

RoT

AF

SV

PD

DR

AC

VR

DK (lol)

 

What was your favorite clan you were a part of other than DF and why? Guess this is only applicable to Bunty since it looks like Homedawg was only DF unless I misread

 

Did either of you enjoy other aspects of the game outside of PvP? If so, what? 

 

It seems like you both are pretty decently happy with where DF is today and how it's stood the test of time unlike so many other clans, which of course you should be. However, if there was 1 thing you could change about that clan currently, would there be something? What would it be?

 

 

1. I liked Sacred Templars a lot, so let's pick them. Another clan I just thought were super respectful and gave us good fights back in the day. 

 

2. Rot. They aren't nearly the sole reason for what the clan world is today, but they definitely played a role in it. Their tactics were and still are cheap and I think made it hard for a lot of people to even enjoy clanning. Idk when my nephew wants to play checkers with me, but he swipes all of my pieces off the board before the game even starts and claims victory, I don't call him the best checkers player of all time.

 

3. 

Tempest - I don't know this clan super well, but I like that it has a bunch of old faces mixed with new faces and you guys are doing your own thing. I like that you are tackling F2P as well, in a way hopefully helping to bring it back.

DF - What can I say, I think people have seen me kiss their asses enough lol. I love this clan.

RoT - See above.

AF - I don't know much about them, but I know they are P2P force to be reckoned with.

SV - Don't know

PD - Don't know

DR - Don't know, just recently heard about them

AC - Don't know

VR - I respect that they are still around doing their thing. I've seen some of their members in DF's discord too and they seem like chill guys.

DK (lol) - Don't know

Sorry I'm an rs boomer.

 

4. Weirdly I liked the smaller clans I was in, The Blue Dragons and The Midnight Warriors. I just liked small communities, they were refreshing and it felt easier to make friends for some reason. I wish Nemesis would have lasted longer though because I liked where that was going initially.

 

5. No I hated playing rs, I only played for clanning. I actually appreciate the pvm aspect more nowadays because I can come home from work and turn my brain off; not have to worry about anything. But I stopped actively playing rs well before I retired from clanning.

 

6. This question has been asked a few times so I'll try to beat around the bush less with my response. Let's say if I were leader DF would probably be doing F2P on top of P2P. That being said I just want them to do their own thing, and it totally does not make a difference to me what they decide to do with their time.

 

7 hours ago, true said:

What smaller/mid-size clans (that never made it to the "top") did you respect the most? 

I always liked Rune Raiders and Demonic Empire. I almost applied to Demonic Empire at one point. Not sure why really outside of liking the vibe of their members.

 

6 hours ago, true said:

@Bunty

 

Could you talk about your time in Awaken?

I joined Awaken when it first started up and was called The Storm, my friend Avster recruited me to it. I can't really remember where most of the people in that clan were before they joined Awaken, but I didn't really know anyone and I found it difficult to make friends. It was fairly forgettable to the point where Blue Wall and I forgot that we were even in it together. I mostly didn't like the leader General Shop, I thought he had an ego that was a bit undeserved, and I remember some people who were in the clan told me they thought the same thing lol. Either way I bailed on it pretty quickly, and my leaving post was pretty brief basically just telling them that I didn't feel like I clicked with the clan. They never flamed me, nor were they rude, it was just not my vibe.

 

I do think I should have maybe stuck around for longer and gave it more of a chance though. As I was typing that up I realized it was pretty similar to when I first joined DF so now I'm starting to think the problem was me. ?

 

5 hours ago, I Kill Batty said:

Having opened DF in 2005, and only really having 2 full years before free trade and wilderness battles were removed, how did you handle it and what type of conversations were had to maintain your members, how many people would you say quit the game because of the update, what hard steps were taken as a result of the update that helped push DF to it's new heights, and how did it affect DF as a clan?

Surprisingly when the wilderness got removed and Bounty Hunter became the replacement it didn't really affect us too much. I do remember pretty much everyone being bummed out, but we made the best of it. I think our first fight in Bounty Hunter was against VR (maybe - bad memory), and I remember that being pretty enjoyable. I think we got a kick of having targets being other DF members and joking around about that, or if it was one of the members of the opposing clan our members pushed everyone to try and kill that specific person lol. But it was basically a large, open, gray space that got boring after awhile. I think a few members called it quits after the update, but ultimately we adapted and moved on.

 

4 hours ago, true said:

Having been around DF plenty prior to joining, I heard bits and pieces (and later read in the archives) of a few Death240 attempted comebacks, including him asking for Leader back and being told no. I believe he was even given Warlord once. What were your thoughts on these attempted comebacks that the clan seemingly had a divided opinion on (old school vs then-current members)? Did you guys personally speak to him about it?

Do you think DF would have been better in the 2009-2011 era if Death was given Leader back?

I only had any sort of communication from him the first time around. I was retired at that point, but he did not have anything nice to say to me lol.

 

Here's the issue with being gone for a long period of time and coming back to immediately gain high ranks. First of all you just don't know what tactics are being used in fights, that's pretty basic. But secondly people only follow people they respect, and if they don't know you that means you have to re-earn their respect like it is day one. I think it would have been much better for Death to unretire as a member and build his way back up, because he absolutely had the skillset to do so, I just think he may have expected too much from a group that didn't know him and they couldn't take him seriously as a result. I never dove deep into it, that's just what I suspect happened based on some conversations with others afterwards.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Bunty

[Bunty 47]

3 hours ago, Kiwi said:

As a Old School member who would of been all for giving him Leader back, honestly? No.

 

Death was great at what he did and who he was in the pre DS DF era, but the clan had changed so much in those couple+ years that he wouldn't of (and didn't) command the same respect that he did during his original leader days. Death was a great leader bc we all followed him blindly and he lead us admirably. But he choose to leave DF for RL reasons and no one could blame for that. It sucked at the time but Bunty/Ves/Lego recovered amazingly and brought DF to new heights following pretty much the blueprint Death had set out. 

 

By the time 09-11 rolled around, our leadership was basically all new people to Death, and even the members for the most part were all different, it was this time Death came back then we promoted all the rest of the 06ers to Old School which as you know stayed that way until OSRS and you guys guted the rank. And it did cause some animosity between the OSers and rest of the members, but the right choice was made imo in not giving him leadership back, even if I at the time was a voice in giving it back to him.

 

Not Bunty or Homedawg, but that's my two cents on that question :P. 

You can chime in anytime you want my friend, we'll make this a Bunty + Homedawg + Kiwi AMA.

 

1 hour ago, true said:

Thoughts on Shinobi as Leader? What is his legacy in DF?

I honestly don't know, I think you'd have a better idea than I would. It just seemed... underwhelming I guess? I remember him having so much potential, and I don't really know how everything went down (you and I have talked about it a little), but it just ended up being different than what I expected. Maybe his peak potential was as council, and there is no shame in that, or maybe he just started to lose interest at the wrong time. I really don't know.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Bunty

[Adam_ 1,031]

Do you prefer F2p or P2p and why? (I think I know the answer to the first part but ya)

 

If you could pass down one lesson to leadership of the clans in today's clan world, based on your careers, what do you think the most important one would be?

 

While I know for sure the jmods weren't exactly as involved in the community as they are nowadays (though it's not really among pvp clans), i've heard/read about some occasions of them interacting with clans and their communities including in Mod Mat K's AMA. When you guys were in leadership was there any interesting things they did just for memes, or were there any decent discussions between your leadership/communities and the jagex team?

 

In your time PvPing were there ever any kills you got that you were proud of ? Whether it was big loot or a kill on someone particularly hard to kill 

 

What's the most 'nh' thing you were either part of or had knowledge of but didn't do anything about or allowed to happen during your time clanning? 

[Kenny 121]

If you could change anything from your time as leader/head warlord what would it be?

[Buzz 99]

Do you think the current Divine Forces should try and re-invent themselves and go back to basics (F2P) which made them successful? It doesn't seem as though p2p is really benefiting them as a clan. 

[Pope 1]

3 hours ago, Buzz said:

Do you think the current Divine Forces should try and re-invent themselves and go back to basics (F2P) which made them successful? It doesn't seem as though p2p is really benefiting them as a clan. 

 

Being an F2P clan forces you to rely on other clans for activity. Being a P2P clan gives you the opportunity to do whatever you want. DF suffered for being the only F2P clan left in 2017. Looks to me like DF is flourishing right now in their own way. They just keep to themselves. 

[I Kill Batty 283]

[@True 2k8 3,215]

Seeing DF's success/overall enjoyment the past few years in P2P, do you wish DF took it more seriously during your tenures?

[@True 2k8 3,215]

Where did the clan world go wrong?

[Homedawg 47]

21 hours ago, Adam_ said:

Do you prefer F2p or P2p and why? (I think I know the answer to the first part but ya)

 

If you could pass down one lesson to leadership of the clans in today's clan world, based on your careers, what do you think the most important one would be?

 

While I know for sure the jmods weren't exactly as involved in the community as they are nowadays (though it's not really among pvp clans), i've heard/read about some occasions of them interacting with clans and their communities including in Mod Mat K's AMA. When you guys were in leadership was there any interesting things they did just for memes, or were there any decent discussions between your leadership/communities and the jagex team?

 

In your time PvPing were there ever any kills you got that you were proud of ? Whether it was big loot or a kill on someone particularly hard to kill 

 

What's the most 'nh' thing you were either part of or had knowledge of but didn't do anything about or allowed to happen during your time clanning? 

I prefer f2p because there's more reliance on the clan as a unit then individuals. P2p was a bit less organized then so it was reliant upon the individual to make the right moves around his friends within his vicinity. F2p is about everyone being on the same page at the same time, and the collaboration that was required, is respectable. P2p has evolved and become may more organized then it was back then, but I like putting on that rune. 

20 hours ago, Kenny said:

If you could change anything from your time as leader/head warlord what would it be?

I look back and regret not leveling up earlier and potentially could have gotten closer to warlord sooner than I did. My time as warlord-head warlord was very short compared to DF's life, so I would have liked to lead DF at that time. 

 

Also wish I established more good relationships with other clans. It goes a long way when they're able to collaborate. We used to have to deal with NI and the ability to AC with other clans was great. We were so competitive though that it blind sided us and sometimes worked against us. I remember fights when having to lead with 30 or so snipers on me only to return in a minute and do it all over again. 

7 hours ago, Buzz said:

Do you think the current Divine Forces should try and re-invent themselves and go back to basics (F2P) which made them successful? It doesn't seem as though p2p is really benefiting them as a clan. 

I think they should do what they like to do and let time take its course. 

30 minutes ago, true said:

Seeing DF's success/overall enjoyment the past few years in P2P, do you wish DF took it more seriously during your tenures?

No, I prefer f2p all the way. 

13 minutes ago, true said:

Where did the clan world go wrong?

When we started letting immature 16 year old millennials run the show. Probably f'd things up considerably. 

[Bunty 47]

20 hours ago, Adam_ said:

Do you prefer F2p or P2p and why? (I think I know the answer to the first part but ya)

 

If you could pass down one lesson to leadership of the clans in today's clan world, based on your careers, what do you think the most important one would be?

 

While I know for sure the jmods weren't exactly as involved in the community as they are nowadays (though it's not really among pvp clans), i've heard/read about some occasions of them interacting with clans and their communities including in Mod Mat K's AMA. When you guys were in leadership was there any interesting things they did just for memes, or were there any decent discussions between your leadership/communities and the jagex team?

 

In your time PvPing were there ever any kills you got that you were proud of ? Whether it was big loot or a kill on someone particularly hard to kill 

 

What's the most 'nh' thing you were either part of or had knowledge of but didn't do anything about or allowed to happen during your time clanning? 

 1. F2P, or at least back when I did play, I don't exactly know 100% what F2P fights look like nowadays. I liked the simplicity of the combat styles because I think it really forced creative approaches to try and get an edge. Organization condensing into piling one person and creating spam towers to try and intimidate the other clan/help members see the pile and motivate them, then hugging trees and rocks to try and tank, then forcing hybrids to play more of a role to stop dragging/hugging, sending snipers to the other clan's fall ins to try, etc.

 

2. I think leadership fundamentals transcend time, and to me its always about people. Don't let the ego get in the way and try to help others in your clan contribute to their highest capabilities and in ways that they want to. Give them opportunities to be creative and utilize their personal skill sets to help your clan improve. There are many different ways clans can be improved, so picking peoples' brains and giving them opportunities will help your clan down the road.

 

3. Nope nothing from my time with the Jagex team honestly. I think Ross has been in touch with them over the years due to in-game complications, but nothing from my team back in the day.

 

4. I got a kill on Robtokill once in a fight, which felt good way back then lol. My account has bad RNG (no it's not me) so I didn't get kills very often.

 

5. I don't really know if I did anything that could have been considered "nh", I pushed pretty hard against that stuff because I was a huge fucking dork. Death jokingly said we were going to become an nh clan once and I created a leaving topic.... I'm lame. ?

 

20 hours ago, Kenny said:

If you could change anything from your time as leader/head warlord what would it be?

So many things. First I wish I would have made more of an effort to stick around longer than I did. Secondly I wish I would have spoken to members 1 on 1 more... I did that a lot more than I think most leaders would but it still wasn't good enough in my mind. Thirdly I would have liked to define the Council role more, because there were periods where I think they didn't know what to do and I didn't guide them super well on that. Fourth I wanted to create a rank where members would nominate other members to maybe like a 1 or 2 month role to contribute to goals or finding solutions to challenges that the clan faced.

 

7 hours ago, Buzz said:

Do you think the current Divine Forces should try and re-invent themselves and go back to basics (F2P) which made them successful? It doesn't seem as though p2p is really benefiting them as a clan. 

Honestly I don't see F2P as a hot fix, no offense to Tempest. I think more clans getting involved can help it grow, but I don't think it's quite at that point yet nor is it going to be as simple as that. Either way maybe a balance of the two would give them access to a broader group of players as far as member growth goes, but then you also have to think about the group that is in there now and if they want to make a switch. Or would that move diminish their current base since they like to P2P? They still pull 50ish people to fights so they aren't by any means dead, and they wouldn't want to make a move that would put them at a worse point.

 

I don't think DF's growth potential, or any clan's really, necessarily comes from picking one of the two pvp options, but instead I think it is other things. Let's use True as an example, the guy markets himself super well. He is personable and gets along with a lot of people. In marketing himself he ultimately marketed his project Tempest, so the clan grew fairly quickly. Now look at forum activity, he draws people to his forums through topics that peak the interests of multiple generations of clanners (think of DI forums back in the day, same thing). Then there is discord where people are being invited to it on a day-to-day basis through essentially word of mouth marketing. All of these things draw people to Tempest and opens doors for Tempest to grow, and only clans marketing themselves can draw both current clanners and future clanners to them. That I think is the key to any clan's growth opportunity, not just DF's.

 

Or I'm super out of touch and don't know what I'm talking about, also a viable option.

 

31 minutes ago, I Kill Batty said:

GOT IT THANKS GUYS.

 

10 minutes ago, true said:

Seeing DF's success/overall enjoyment the past few years in P2P, do you wish DF took it more seriously during your tenures?

No, because our member base back then really liked F2P. Maybe we missed an opportunity there, but we were thriving and enjoying F2P, and what your members enjoy matters a lot.

[@True 2k8 3,215]

If you had to give Leader to one person that never got it, who?