Eternal Honour's AMA (3lite, Grug, Slaughter17, Xero)

[≈Flukejiver 1,182]

Looking back, do you have any decisions you regret making during your time in EH?

[Grug 6]

3 hours ago, MILAD said:

@Grug

 

 

Seeing as you're in the Australian timezone, which obviously made it difficult for you to attend events back then, I am wondering. Was it uncomfortable for you to wake up early, and how much effort did you care to put in? I ask this because I understand that in order to attend actively, you had to put in that effort many people did not have to. My follow-up question to this: Did you ever think about permanently stepping down, but still somewhat try and do as much as possible when it was more suitable for you? If so, who do you think would have been the perfect candidate to replace you? We had a tendency in EH to have between 2-3 leaders, so obviously there would have been a replacement at the time (2007-2008).

Hi Milad ❤️

PK Trips/Wars/Events were often at a very akward time where neither waking up early nor staying up was ideal. They were often too early for me to go to sleep and wake up getting enough sleep, but too late that I could stay up because they usually lasted hours on end. So the short answer is that it was EXTREMELY uncomfortable, but I didn't mind putting in the effort because of my love for EH. Putting in this effort to come to these extremely awkward events meant that the time I had to myself when I didn't have commitments to EH, I took to myself to re energize.

There were times where I thought about stepping down, but those thoughts then boosted me to try and become more active. As was mentioned earlier in the AMA (By S17 I believe), my periods of inactivity didn't mean I didn't know what was going on in the clan or didn't care about the clan, I was still trying to do a lot behind the scenes. 

I never really thought about a replacement, the great thing about the leadership system we had is that if one leader were to go inactive for a period of time, you have two other leaders who are clued into everything to pick up the slack.

 

 

 

 

[Eric`` 721]

How many times did you each strike @MILAD

[3lite 111]

12 hours ago, Eric said:

Yeah! i remember having some of those in old clans such as Runeraiders. Also JR clans were a good way to get new people into the pvp aspect of the game. 

Not long ago, we had a discussion with Brian i think about how to get new people into pvp clans, my point being clans just don't go after new people but the same clanners all the time, and that is why there aren't as many clans as before. 

 

For example, when i was in TR we created a JR clan where i'd recruit lvls 90-110 that i just met while doing slayer, and after chatting for a while invited them to join. There we'd have some easy fights in cwa, some AC trips and tanking practices which you mentioned for them to get familiar with the dynamics. 

 

So, which other tactics, routines, or just things done as a clan did EH do to get new people into the clanworld? 

As S17 mentioned, recruitment tended to be one of our weaker areas.  Most of our members came from either the closures of small clans or a community of country clans who joined us as a group (e.g., DE, MMA, SR, FT) or as friends of people in game.  We got a few stragglers coming in from other major clans, but I feel like we never were very proactive in recruiting.

 

9 hours ago, Empire Mind said:

Hey @3lite @Vanuckle how's it been?

Haven't talked to you 3lite since the good day coming back to OSRS and finding you at the rogue place cooking and we talked for a while and I thought you were coming back to the game at that point.

Did you guys ever feel "hyped/more determined" to winning a fight when going against a certain clan and it'd change your attitude/leadership style for the whole fight?

I believe this question would vary from person to person.  Almost everyone in EH was hyped to fight VR and when we had a planned fight, in the days leading up to a VR fight, the forums would flood with a ton of hype topics.  People would be making signatures/forum banners to make the fight visible, retired members would be coming out of retirement for the fight, and it would all around be a big boost for the clan.

For me personally, I was most determined to hype/defeat DI.  I held a grudge for things mentioned earlier in this topic and so I felt DI was a more dangerous adversary to EH than many of our other rivalries.

 

9 hours ago, I Kill Batty said:

What -apart from people quitting- do you feel has lead to the decline of pvp clanning overall?

I may be way off-base here.  I haven't been involved in clanning in 10 years so I may have an unrealistic or uneducated view.  But here is my best shot at an opinion on this one.

The desire for clans to be the best seems to have always been at odds with the health of the clan world.  There are often trade-offs between tactical advantages and what is reasonably fun in a fight.  A large proportion of the clan world population would likely say that long fights (8+ hours) were unhealthy and ultimately led to burn out.  Yet we all participated in them for that sweet, sweet victory topic at the end.  People would probably universally agree that leaving the bounds to regroup in a place where hugging was better was annoying (both for the clan doing it and the opposing clan).  Yet if it gave people a shot at victory, they were willing to jump on board.

Fast forward to the present day, and things have become a lot worse.  Permanently stopping log ins to gain an advantage quickly destroys the clan world.  Wearing addy to continue returning and win a fight feels like a hollow victory for the winning clan and demoralizing for the losing clan. Not allowing for a fair fight with crashing being an inevitability makes it difficult to have a true victory.  Fight topics that are posted by many clans intentionally use language to degrade their opponents and try to make themselves look better - topics like these are doubly detrimental because anyone capable of free thought just realizes the clan posting it is exaggerating and not portraying an honest result.  All the above examples boil down to rampant toxicity in the clan world, and there are many more examples.

The toxicity is caused by either short-sightedness or by those who don't really share the values of improving pvp clanning.  For some clans, there would be desire for the clan world to grow as growth would promote both a boost to the member counts of that clan as well as provide more competition (something that is currently lacking).  It would therefore make sense to lay some ground rules to promote an enjoyable experience that the winner can feel proud about.  A loss is still something that can be viewed as a fun experience if the fight was a good one.  Though it seems simplistic, I think many clans would be hesitant to give up many of the tactics they've become so accustomed to for a better world.  On the other hand, there are some clans that wouldn't really benefit from a resurgence of the clan world, and would prefer to be kings of the ashes.  These clans would be a major detriment because in order to have rules described earlier, it would greatly help to have buy-off from the majority of current clans.

Clans actively participating in a toxic environment or with situations that ruin the fun of a fight would make clanning a really daunting experience for any newcomers to the clan world (or even for those trying to return).  I think the unappealing nature of the clan world is what has primarily caused decline, though there are other factors as well.  I understand but don't buy the argument that the game isn't large enough to support a clan world.  I'd say its not the game but the clan world that struggles to bring in new people.

The only realistic way I can see to avoid "kings of the ashes" is full-out uncapped person CWA fights.  But folks dislike CWA as a venue.  I would not see CWA as necessary for P2P (where fights are still occurring in the wilderness naturally) but for F2P, I'd pose a few questions to ponder - is there really enough competition actively pking in the wilderness to have unexpected and competitive PKRIs?  If the answer is no and all competitive fights are planned anyway, what is the value to the wild over CWA other than that it is less constrained?  Is being less constrained by rules and susceptible to crashing worth it to be in a different location?

Note: didn't comment on something that many have identified as a problem (box style fights, with longer length binds from pre-osrs and no hugging), as I've never really been involved in that world.

 

6 hours ago, Brian said:

To be a clan leader we all know you need to put a serious amount of hours into it, almost as if it was a full time job. Do any of you regret the amount of time you spent on RS during those years looking back on it now?

It was a different time - a period when I was younger in my life.  I had a scholarship to my university that I got put on probation for twice due to poor grades, stemming from spending too much time on RS rather than the things that would traditionally matter.  I recognized the detrimental impact that Runescape was having - which is why I needed to retire when starting up my post graduate.  After retiring from Runescape, I really excelled in my post-grad work, which was the impetus for success in my career.

One would expect that after the above statement that I'd be regretting the amount of time spent looking back.  I don't think I do.  My Runescape experiences helped to shape who I became and I turned out alright in the end.  I also think the multi-leader system helped me personally.  I could always fall back on Islamia, Broski, Grug, or DP9 and know that EH was going to be ok.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by 3lite

[Yoto32 30]

5 hours ago, Grug said:

Yoto! ❤️ I'm doing well, hope you're also doing well.

I think because of the type of clan that EH was, it attracted mature people, people who were more likely to be noticed and move up on Zybez CD. 

I'm doing real well, started an ironman almost two years ago and I've been having the most fun on rs I ever had. What have you been up to?

I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread before but I cbf to go back and read 9 pages of conversation. What type of clan was EH that attracted so many mature people? What set it apart from the other clans, and were there active steps taken by EH leadership to attract those kind of people or was it organic and members just sort of self-selected? It's funny, I'm pretty sure the entire clan world was in their teens back then, and teenagers aren't exactly known for their maturity.

8 hours ago, Krystal said:

OMG I remember Brad saying that and us having that dilemma sometimes since we were supposed to stay off our clan's topics, so modding EH topics became a challenge.  I had to pester non-CD mods to help out, and they hated modding CD.   Ahahahaha.  Funny thing is, I actually became a RSC cl when in Gladz and then joined EH after buddying up with the other EH cl's, so I didn't help with this problem. =X 

Yea it was really just to keep up appearances, because no doubt that EH members would have been objective and restrained moderating their own topics. And that was Brad's big problem, because not only did we mostly just promote EH members, but current CLs kept joining them! Now that I think about it I think it was specifically you joining EH that prompted Brad's post. Unfortunately that was not one of the topics I saved, but it's still stuck in my mind.

[Krystal 420]

3 minutes ago, Yoto32 said:

I'm doing real well, started an ironman almost two years ago and I've been having the most fun on rs I ever had. What have you been up to?

I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread before but I cbf to go back and read 9 pages of conversation. What type of clan was EH that attracted so many mature people? What set it apart from the other clans, and were there active steps taken by EH leadership to attract those kind of people or was it organic and members just sort of self-selected? It's funny, I'm pretty sure the entire clan world was in their teens back then, and teenagers aren't exactly known for their maturity.

Yea it was really just to keep up appearances, because no doubt that EH members would have been objective and restrained moderating their own topics. And that was Brad's big problem, because not only did we mostly just promote EH members, but current CLs kept joining them! Now that I think about it I think it was specifically you joining EH that prompted Brad's post. Unfortunately that was not one of the topics I saved, but it's still stuck in my mind.

I actually was going to say that also. I do think it was me joining them that triggered his post lollll.

[3lite 111]

6 hours ago, true said:

Who would you say is the most overrated clan of all time?

I'll let others answer as I spoke to this one a bit, but for me SE.  I can't assign any of the clans that contested #1 during the period of activity (VR, EoS, TT, RSD, DI, DF) to an overrated category, because they all had their moments of greatness. 

 

5 hours ago, MILAD said:

 

@3lite @Vanuckle

 

 

Do you believe that EH reached the maximum that we could've reached? Did we have any more things to achieve that we didn't and what was the reason? Also, I now remember that you also played WoW, but my question is: What do you think about the outcasts (that's what they were called, the WoW crew that seperated a bit from the community and some even skipped events too,  by specifically Flavofaven99 back then (may God bless that cute voice of his)) and what kind of impact did they have on EH as a whole? 

 

In regards to the question above, this is is somehow connected. Do you remember at one point we had a few key members leave for TT? Finalman123, Warren121212, Devil1081, Gilby18, Ptw Matrix3, etc etc. Why do you think they all left simultaneously and what was the cause of it? I remember Warren121212 stirring up a lot of shit on forums/IRC about how we're very cautious with everything, we don't take risks, we don't try and push for our maximal potential that we know we have within the clan, and so on. It is possible though that some of these names were kicked, but it has been 11 years, so my memory of it is vague. 

 

 

Thank you ❤️

 

I don't believe EH reached the maximum it could have, but reflecting back on EH, I think we had a few major weaknesses in our core thought processes and planning strategies that could have improved us.

1.) Recruitment - We never focused on this very much and a steady influx of new members would have helped us to advance greatly.
2.) Try to be the best - One systemic philosophical problem was that EH generally strived to be better than whoever our opponent for the week was.  Our goal should have been more focused on being #1 rather than better than individual clans.
3.) More thought from our pk leaders prior to getting into fights - Some of our pk leaders just wanted to pk.  EH was a clan that was less active than many of its contemporaries.  We had a lot more members interested in community and non-warring events than many other clans.  I think it was very easy to get goaded into a disadvantageous, spur of the moment fight from clans like EoS and VR.  Instant activity was the strength of EoS and VR, so by falling for goading, EH pk leaders were essentially being manipulated by other clans into a disadvantageous position.  It did not help that we had ~20 vocal members that wanted more activity but that a large number of the other members did not share that sentiment (this issue greatly divided the community).  Because a good portion of our core did not want, did not know about, or did not participate in spur of the moment PKs, a lack of recognition of the detriment to high activity by some pk leaders (who only saw high activity as a positive) was a major tactical flaw.

A second weakness I saw was that some PK leaders were more willing to treat clans like SE, Col, CR, and (to a lesser extent) EoS as serious competition.  For better or for worse, and likely as detriment to the aforementioned clans, I worked to shape the EH mentality to not see those clans as competition but rather to see them as inferior.  By portraying those clans as inferior, it became very hard to lose to them.  EoS had periods of being very powerful - definitely more powerful than us.  To maintain the mentality that we had set up, we almost never fought EoS when they were strong.  There were many times when I think up and coming clans saw EH as their potential entry point into the higher rankings (other than the aforementioned clans, CL and Syndicate also tried to do this).  I don't think we were a good stepping stone in that regard because we were too motivated not to lose to someone we viewed as non-competitive.

While I was around, I oversaw the vast majority of the fight planning.  However, I had two several month periods of inactivity in EH and the clan became a very different beast.  EH had greatly improved activity, but EH also was at its lowest point ranking-wise during these periods.  The problem is that neither strategy is objectively better - it depends whether a member cares about high activity or about being a stronger clan.  I cared about having a stronger clan and, as such, the tactical decisions I made were often polarizing in the clan. 

*Edit* I want to clarify that I did not view #3 as a weakness in pk leaders, who were all dedicated individuals trying to to the best they could for EH and believed they were doing the correct thing.  I saw #3 as my own failure for not better mentoring those who I worked with and trying to give a different thought process/set of possible scenarios.  By not better fostering strategic thinking and letting people work "in my shoes," I did not do the correct thing in the long term. I really want to reiterate that all our pk leaders were awesome and I wouldn't trade them out for anyone else in the clan world, given the choice.

4.) More willingness from me to contest #1 - Along the lines of #3, I identify a major flaw in my planning methods as planning overly safe fights.  I tended to plan fights with clans that we were evenly matched with (competitive fights) or with clans that we would not care to lose to (training style fights; with RDC/TRWF/LF/Etc).  This put us in a very stable position (generally rank 3-5), but rarely put us in a position of dominance.  If you want to be the best, you have to try to be the best.  I was most willing to plan fights to contest #1 when it was likely that we were already #1.

The WoW crew playing WoW was a tough decision for leaders.  It was demoralizing for EH members to see a member playing WoW during a pk run-in.  At the time, we were thinking that the decision was to kick the members (many of whom were strong community figures with many friends in the clan) or to turn a blind eye.  I think there was a third option that we should have pursued.  If a member is playing WoW rather than joining us for a PKRI, it is clear where their priorities were at the time.  We should have moved them to a retired rank to allow them to return to us when they were ready.

Those that left for TT highly valued PKing activity and saw other clans goading us on Zybez.  See 3.) above.  I think TT was a curious choice, however, because if they were interested in a clan with similar ideals to EH but wanted activity, I would think that DF would have been a better fit.

 

 

4 hours ago, Rclav said:

Hi Guys,

 

No questions from me but wanted to express my gratitude towards EH's leadership team. Having been my first "big clan" in RS, I have so many great memories from my time in EH. Everyone here's leadership had a lot to do with that. 

 

Miss you all!

 

#FindIslamia2020

❤️

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by 3lite

[Tika191 1,099]

15 hours ago, MILAD said:

I learned, despite the fact of how I act around people on any platform related to the game, how to be mature and handle situations with great care, dialogue and patience.

 

LMFAO

[3lite 111]

 

1 hour ago, Eric`` said:

How many times did you each strike @MILAD

Milad was in a close running with Warren, Gaterbait, and Devil for the most number of strikes achieved. ?

 

1 hour ago, Yoto32 said:

I'm doing real well, started an ironman almost two years ago and I've been having the most fun on rs I ever had. What have you been up to?

I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread before but I cbf to go back and read 9 pages of conversation. What type of clan was EH that attracted so many mature people? What set it apart from the other clans, and were there active steps taken by EH leadership to attract those kind of people or was it organic and members just sort of self-selected? It's funny, I'm pretty sure the entire clan world was in their teens back then, and teenagers aren't exactly known for their maturity.

Yea it was really just to keep up appearances, because no doubt that EH members would have been objective and restrained moderating their own topics. And that was Brad's big problem, because not only did we mostly just promote EH members, but current CLs kept joining them! Now that I think about it I think it was specifically you joining EH that prompted Brad's post. Unfortunately that was not one of the topics I saved, but it's still stuck in my mind.

I think we just really valued trying not to be a negative force in the community and valued not resorting to inflammatory attacks on other people/clans.  While resorting to those things might be temporarily and personally satisfying, we didn't see it as a positive contribution to either our relationship to other clans or to our community as a whole. 

I've no doubt that some viewed our rules on Zybez conduct as pretentious. @Mk 17 probably pictures all our members showing up to PKRIs in their Sunday best, hair slicked back and well styled, perhaps sipping a nice chamomile with pinky out, and talking about the latest curling game.  Only 25% of that image is true (dang Canadians) and at the end of the day, I think we were just a group of folks with a set of values, trying to do what we thought was the right thing in a world where all clans had a very different atmosphere.

EH leadership never actively sought to recruit a certain set of people, but I do think the mentality was more appealing to some than others.

 

 

[Vanzant 1,380]

16 hours ago, Xero said:

EH was a clan with uncompromising values.  We striker, and even kicked members, for things that other clans wouldn't have batted an eye at.  I don't think there was one exclusive moment that defined EH, but rather a continuing, conscious effort to remain true to ourselves.  

Strengths: An uncompromising dedication to our values and our core memberbase that carried us through.  We were extremely organized as well.  

Weaknesses: Our commitment to our integrity and self imposed rules held us back in an environment where others didn't play by the same rules.  Our membercount was never enough to push us over the top.  We were very selective with who we took in.  

I haven't really followed Deathrow too much.  If I had more interest in p2p pking I may have explored it more.  Null is Null.  He's a great guy that never sugarcoats anything and will always stand up for his friends and those he respects.  

Hello.  Were you ever in BK?

No fucking leg pics.  Get out of here with that!

Some of my most memorable fights early on were against VR, later against EoS.  I don't know that EH ever truly hated any clan, but these two were top of that list if it existed.  

 

Worst official: This is tough.  EH was very thorough with who they promoted but the ones I never understood were Ommoht as a Grand Officer - he was never active, never around and as nice of a guy as he is, I don't know what he brought to the table.  I also think Striker 36 was a mistake.  The guy snapped and bailed rather than be mature and figure his shit out.  

 

Biggest regret: This is easy.  Leaving.  I recognized my mistake right away and ultimately came back but it's been said before that I am a passionate and emotional person at times and this can lead to me making a rash decision.  Leaving for Corruption was probably an example of that.  I have mellowed in my old age.  

I respected anyone who was willing to be honest and consistently true to themselves.  For that reason, my list would include people like D0nts, Lego, Flinstoneman, The Rad's, Brian, Chopa, Mar, F1r3o, etc.

When Milad was in EH with me, he was very young still.  I actually butted heads with him a LOT.  I wish I could have played with him later when he grew into his personality a bit more.  Younger Milad was stressful haha.  

Why yes, let me tell you a tale. I remember the early days of EH we did skirmish with one another a couple times

[≈Vanuckle 2,134]

18 hours ago, Krystal said:

EH AMA hellllll yes.  I am so excited to see this AMA from the folks I spent some of my most enjoyable times in RS with!!  I look forward to reading through all of your responses! I apologize in advance if any of these questions have already been asked. I tried to do a quick glance through the topic to avoid repeats.

Unless otherwise specified, all of my clan-related questions are focused on when I was in EH which was 2006-2007.

 

@All:

1. Do you think @true is going overboard with the amount of questions he’s asking? I mean, good god, dude, save some questions for the rest of us. LOL.

Yeah tell him to cool his jets!

 

2. Were there any clans that stood out that you would have loved to have had as official allies? People often joked about EH & DF being buddy buddies and some even called us “Eternal Forces”. Could you have seen them as actually being a good clan as an ally, basically a clan that you felt shared similar sort of ideals as EH?

Fun vid I recorded back then of having a Deathmarch with them <3:

Great video, I think over time our views changed by especially in 2006-2007, we had a similar outlook.

 

3. Brian mentioned that DI had a 13-hour PKRI with EH one time. Was this the longest PKRI that we had or is there one that comes to mind that was even longer? For each of you, I would like to know what your personal best marathon was – the longest that you stayed awake continuously for a PKRI?  Any struggles that you had? Crazy stories like having multiple bottles of pee piling up beside you as the night dragged on? ?  [If only it was that easy for us ladies…]

Hahah, there were a few long ones. I think 13 or 14 hours was probably the longest for me. I remember having to start a shift at 5am, and the fight literally ending at 4:30am one night. Being PST meant that I was usually at every fight start to finish. There were a handful of weekday CWA fights that I missed due to being in high school, but I was at every major weekend fight from 2008 to late 2009. Being at the whole thing due to my timezone meant that they were all marathons. There were some really savage fights, from what I remember. The one I vividly remember, though, is our battle against SE, believe it was 9-10 hours. It was hyped up very hard and I remember being the leader that likely had the most disdain for SE. I called all night. I died well over 100 times. I just remember the fight ending, and being so happy, but more just feeling physically exhausted. My neck hurt. my body ached, I had a huge headache, I was fatigued from screaming for so long... It was just one of those things where you were like, 'wow, all this for a video game.'

 

4. Eternal Honour stressed maintaining a positive “honorable” image in the clan community, and one major place to do this was on RSC.  Conveniently, EH had many moderators on RSC that could assist in maintaining this image.. My question is, did you ever take advantage of our mod presence (I think there were like 5 of us at one point – I seriously almost made a pixel sig of our mod unit lmao) to help maintain this image? Such as requesting flame posts to be deleted (could’ve been against our own members or from opposing clans that would post things that made EH look bad) or even doing something like pushing to get people banned to eliminate them completely. If you did try to abuse them, were there any naughty EH mods that actually did delete posts for the sake of protecting EH’s image?

The thing is, I genuinely believe many of the mods were good, honest people. The thing is, people may have flamed on Zybez, and the mods may have deleted those posts to 'uphold' our image, but almost always, these were actually punished by the clan. How many clans could say they would do that? I daresay none. So our image may have been clean, but it was also enforced internally.

 

@3lite

❤️ My oldest RS friend. ? 

I am curious to know what other names were in the running when deciding upon the clan name.  Did Eternal Honour win by a landslide? Was there another name that the clan almost adopted?  Who originally proposed the name?

 

My memory is fuzzy.  I obviously remember we were in Gladz together in 2004, but when did you depart Gladz? What clans were you in before EH? How did you find your way to EH? Also, would you agree that green cape > all? ?  

 

 

@Grug

GRUGGLES MY FAVORITE AUSSIE ❤️ 

How many pounds of vegemite do you consume on a daily basis? What the hell does vegemite even taste like? Is it sweet or salty?

 

And same question I gave 3lite about the name: Just curious if there was another name that we almost had. ? 

 

@Xero

Hiii friend ❤️ As a leader on the battlefield, I’d like to know if you can think of a fight that you feel like you made a huge impact which contributed into EH being victorious in battle.  I know it’s been years, but perhaps there was a time when our fearless leader 3lite fell to the ground, and you seized the opportunity to organize our forces and keep the momentum going in his absence.

 

@Vanuckle

Sup Trev? ? I am sad that I didn’t get to see you rise to Holy Commander! I would like you to compare and contrast Tempest & Eternal Honour for me, in various ways.  Could be wildy prowess, could be the community, ideals, etc. (Way to drop the ball on letting them pick blue cape btw; should’ve been green, man!)

Haha, the cape choice was between green and blue! Blue felt more appropriate for the tempest storm. ?  In terms of the comparison; Tempest is the closest I've ever felt to replicating the feeling in EH. The community is so tightly knit. There are great skilling / questing / fun / community events, or even other games we all play to have some fun and hang out together. TS is always popping. Discord is entertaining. We have a great crew of leadership who work hard for each other and try to make the space fun for everyone to get involved. It's hard to describe from the inside to someone on the outside, but I think that everyone who is on the inside knows what I mean.

 

[≈Vanuckle 2,134]

18 hours ago, david said:

What do you think about today's callers compare to older days, can't say much since you pretty much only hear me, tim, tika and true

The strategies have changed, the meta's have shifted, but calling ability is still comparable imo. It's not apples to apples because of the fact that the game is different, but in terms of ability, I would say that you, Tim, Tika, and True are all of very high quality and if you were to be transplanted into the 2009 era, would all be great callers in that era as well.

[≈Vanuckle 2,134]

18 hours ago, MILAD said:

there are so many statements about when EH closed made by various people on this thread.

 

 

I`ll just settle the debate with 26th of October 2009. Yes, I did cry, ty.

❤️

18 hours ago, Dark Invoker said:

Do you think being involved in clanning at such deep level at (assumedly) a younger age helped you out later in life? (The reason I ask is that your clan was founded upon a particular set of values that resonated with your members and ranks - something a lot of brands are doing in the 21st century to build a community / brand image)

Yes and no -- I would say that the values were already in me before joining EH. So as a person, it just reinforced those. But in terms of the biggest impact, I think that clanning allowed me to learn how to write well, and man-manage large groups of people at a young age. I think that really helped me through uni and then in my management jobs I took after school.

 

Do you have any regrets from your clanning or playing days?

In 2006, I was Pmod and in the clan Adelais. I was late to a PK trip and walking up with another member, Flip1510. I was following him up to deep wildy as we caught up with the group. Halfway up I had to go to the bathroom and said "brb, going to bathroom. don't kill me my bro is watching haha." He reported me and I lost my pmod. So I guess I regret saying that in the game LOL.

 

Any good / funny stories of how Runescape effected your lives back then? (playing so much and being so commited to a clan was a full time gig)

Basically I would plan my whole work and life around big Saturday fights. It was pretty sad but that's how I lived back then. I think the funniest story I can recall personally (won't be funny to anyone else) was running home from school to make a CWA fight. Literally sprinted full speed down a trail that connected my school to my house. Had my computer all set up on the rs log in screen in the morning, so that all I had to do was click log in, because the fight was scheduled for 3pm but Islamia was going to stall until about 3:10, when I would get home. Anyways, sprint all the way home, just sweating buckets, go into my room, and see my parents had shut down my computer ('to conserve energy' smh). Anyways, missed the war and was sulking all night because of it.

 

 

[Monkey 50]

2 hours ago, 3lite said:

What -apart from people quitting- do you feel has lead to the decline of pvp clanning overall?

I may be way off-base here.  I haven't been involved in clanning in 10 years so I may have an unrealistic or uneducated view.  But here is my best shot at an opinion on this one.

The desire for clans to be the best seems to have always been at odds with the health of the clan world.  There are often trade-offs between tactical advantages and what is reasonably fun in a fight.  A large proportion of the clan world population would likely say that long fights (8+ hours) were unhealthy and ultimately led to burn out.  Yet we all participated in them for that sweet, sweet victory topic at the end.  People would probably universally agree that leaving the bounds to regroup in a place where hugging was better was annoying (both for the clan doing it and the opposing clan).  Yet if it gave people a shot at victory, they were willing to jump on board.

Fast forward to the present day, and things have become a lot worse.  Permanently stopping log ins to gain an advantage quickly destroys the clan world.  Wearing addy to continue returning and win a fight feels like a hollow victory for the winning clan and demoralizing for the losing clan. Not allowing for a fair fight with crashing being an inevitability makes it difficult to have a true victory.  Fight topics that are posted by many clans intentionally use language to degrade their opponents and try to make themselves look better - topics like these are doubly detrimental because anyone capable of free thought just realizes the clan posting it is exaggerating and not portraying an honest result.  All the above examples boil down to rampant toxicity in the clan world, and there are many more examples.

The toxicity is caused by either short-sightedness or by those who don't really share the values of improving pvp clanning.  For some clans, there would be desire for the clan world to grow as growth would promote both a boost to the member counts of that clan as well as provide more competition (something that is currently lacking).  It would therefore make sense to lay some ground rules to promote an enjoyable experience that the winner can feel proud about.  A loss is still something that can be viewed as a fun experience if the fight was a good one.  Though it seems simplistic, I think many clans would be hesitant to give up many of the tactics they've become so accustomed to for a better world.  On the other hand, there are some clans that wouldn't really benefit from a resurgence of the clan world, and would prefer to be kings of the ashes.  These clans would be a major detriment because in order to have rules described earlier, it would greatly help to have buy-off from the majority of current clans.

Clans actively participating in a toxic environment or with situations that ruin the fun of a fight would make clanning a really daunting experience for any newcomers to the clan world (or even for those trying to return).  I think the unappealing nature of the clan world is what has primarily caused decline, though there are other factors as well.  I understand but don't buy the argument that the game isn't large enough to support a clan world.  I'd say its not the game but the clan world that struggles to bring in new people.

The only realistic way I can see to avoid "kings of the ashes" is full-out uncapped person CWA fights.  But folks dislike CWA as a venue.  I would not see CWA as necessary for P2P (where fights are still occurring in the wilderness naturally) but for F2P, I'd pose a few questions to ponder - is there really enough competition actively pking in the wilderness to have unexpected and competitive PKRIs?  If the answer is no and all competitive fights are planned anyway, what is the value to the wild over CWA other than that it is less constrained?  Is being less constrained by rules and susceptible to crashing worth it to be in a different location?

Note: didn't comment on something that many have identified as a problem (box style fights, with longer length binds from pre-osrs and no hugging), as I've never really been involved in that world.

I think this hits the nail on the head. People are so intent on winning that they’ll do just about anything. That, in combination with the advantage a clan has from effectively sucking the fun out of the game for their opponent, has led to things spiraling out of control. Early on, people rationalized certain changes (dragging, returning, etc.) as the clan world evolving, and maybe there was some truth to that. But for the last several years it’s been a race to the bottom.

 

I don’t have any questions for you all about EH, but I wanted to apologize to those of you who were there (3lite, Grug, Xero, Krystal, to name a few) for the way I acted during my time there. I was an immature little shit, not to mention a dick to some of you on a personal level.

[Josh 137]

I don't really have a question, but thanks for the memories. I always remember ST and EH as a good clan to fight against with similar values to myself (even if I'd just troll around on Zybez). After DI closed, It was either TT or EH who I'd join next.

 

Best of luck to you all.